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1. Embed this notice
   feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Thursday, 12-Oct-2023 23:38:15 JST feld
   an actually smart nuanced response to the Israel/Palestine problem
   • Embed this notice
     Lina Inver?e (lina@eientei.org)'s status on Thursday, 12-Oct-2023 23:41:06 JST Lina Inver?e

     in reply to
     @feld i have an even smarter response, not even just a response, but a whole description of the entire situation:
     :pissateshit:
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 00:15:54 JST feld

     in reply to

     • Lien Rag
     first, stop conflating Hamas with Palestinian civilians.
     
     Israel has behaved badly.
     
     Hamas has behaved badly.
     
     The remaining ~2 million Palestinians are innocent here.
   • Embed this notice
     Lien Rag (lienrag@mastodon.tedomum.net)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 00:15:56 JST Lien Rag

     in reply to

     @feld

     Interesting, and probably valid at his level, but still deliberate targeting of civilians is a war crime, and something that is NOT equal to armed resistance.

   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 00:20:07 JST feld

     in reply to

     • Lien Rag
     If you starve and beat the shit out of a dog and the dog attacks and maims/kills you, do you condemn the actions of the dog?
   • Embed this notice
     Lien Rag (lienrag@mastodon.tedomum.net)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 00:20:08 JST Lien Rag

     in reply to

     @feld

     I entirely agree with you.
     But he clearly states that he won't condemn the Hamas attack.
     I understand why, and agree with him considering who he's answering to.
     But as a general position, it's a problem to equate deliberate targeting of civilians with taking arms against the oppressor.

   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 00:26:02 JST feld

     in reply to

     • Lien Rag
     I'm not saying the Palestinians are dogs, but that they've been treated worse than we treat animals. And you should not expect their compliance and submission to a quiet excruciating death and existence.
   • Embed this notice
     Lien Rag (lienrag@mastodon.tedomum.net)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 00:26:03 JST Lien Rag

     in reply to

     @feld

     Thing is, I approve of the military operation of Hamas and of the prowess they deployed in it.
     I still condemn that most of it was dedicated to war crimes against civilians (though reservists should not count as civilians).

     If your dog kills you, you deserved it. If it kills your child, you still deserved it but the child did not.
     And Palestinians are not dogs, even if they have been treated like ones by nearly everyone (which Varoufakis very rightly points).

   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 00:50:29 JST feld

     in reply to

     • kravietz 🦇
     • Lien Rag
     > Hamas won elections in Palestine in 2006.
     
     And there has never been an election since. Hamas won't allow one.
   • Embed this notice
     kravietz 🦇 (kravietz@agora.echelon.pl)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 00:50:30 JST kravietz 🦇

     in reply to

     • Lien Rag
     @feld
     
     Hamas won elections in Palestine in 2006.
     
     And that was after Israel removed Israeli settlers from West Bank, some of them forcibly, implementing yet another deescalation plan.
     
     In response Hamas started a civil war in Gaza, took it over and expelled/killed supporters of more moderate wing (Fatah). And started digging up water pipes laid by UN and EU and converting them to rockets.
     
     And called for humanitarian help, because objectively the situation they created was dire. In response, Israel, EU and UN laid new water pipes and building supplies. Hamas used them to build a network of tunnels.
     
     Etc etc.
     
     @lienrag
   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 01:19:26 JST feld

     in reply to

     • kravietz 🦇
     • Lien Rag
     Removing Hamas and freeing the Palestinian civilians should be our highest priority, yeah.
   • Embed this notice
     kravietz 🦇 (kravietz@agora.echelon.pl)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 01:19:27 JST kravietz 🦇

     in reply to

     • Lien Rag
     @feld
     
     Very true! So do we all agree that Hamas should be removed ASAP in the interest of everyone?
     
     @lienrag
   • Embed this notice
     HeavenlyPossum (heavenlypossum@kolektiva.social)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 02:37:59 JST HeavenlyPossum

     in reply to

     • Lien Rag

     @feld @lienrag

     “I really admire Hamas’ operation to murder civilians (but condemn the killing of civilians [except for civilians who might be later mobilized as civilians])” is one hell of a contortion.

   • Embed this notice
     feld (feld@bikeshed.party)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 02:37:59 JST feld

     in reply to

     • Lien Rag
     • HeavenlyPossum
     who said anything about admiration?
   • Embed this notice
     Lien Rag (lienrag@mastodon.tedomum.net)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 02:41:46 JST Lien Rag

     in reply to

     @feld

     He distorts something I wrote earlier, being quite angry at my takes (which I can understand, due to the horror of the current situation - but still I don't think distorting what the other party wrote is helpful in any manner).

     feld likes this.