@coolboymew and since i'm already rambling about it, i trained up a fear and hunger artsyle lora but i'm still not satisfied with the results. i need to refine it for a stupid project i'm working on. i also realized i could trivially use img2img to make the game look like it was drawn by someone else, and that if i got the artstyle lora to my satisfaction i could reverse the process and combine that with a spritesheet lora to easily inject any character into fear and hunger
we are rapidly approaching a point where the idea guy is the only guy that matters
@coolboymew stapling the n64 lora straight onto the facewrap lora doesn't get useful results, but if i had a few dozen n64 sheets i could train up something that does that specifically. i experimented with fear and hunger spritesheets for that a while back. i'd call it a success because i used a miniscule dataset and insanely unfair parameters. if i chopped up the sprites into individual poses and actually provided text files to explain what the AI was looking at, i could easily make ai-generated sprites of anything and whip up a quick script in stable diffusion to turn them into sheets
>we are rapidly approaching a point where the idea guy is the only guy that matters
More or less. Super indie games are either broken up in these categories -Art dude that can only use RPG Maker -Programmer that doesn't have art dudes -Dude who has neither and has to make Mario clickteam fusion games
@hj@coolboymew nah, it can do it fine, i just fucked up part of the datasets so it looks like shit with all sorts of weird noise and jpeg-like compression around high-detail areas like hands. i know what caused it and how to fix it i just haven't yet
@All_bonesJones@coolboymew i mean AI is pretty bad at consistency, i.e. making character rotations or different expressions while maintaining same style/position, maintaining fine details etc. Worst of all - refining existing art, i.e. if someone notices some detail is incorrect like ribbon color or anatomy error, right now you can't tell AI to fix it, you have to regenerate the image.
@hj@All_bonesJones The second pic, with patchouli in the fear and hunger like art, has some actually very potable art that you could use in an indie game
@All_bonesJones@coolboymew "massively", those arts you posted are quite inconsistent. I mean have you seen those "ai generated" videos? It's almost like watching analog TV with really bad reception - everything moves erratically and there's too much noise.
@coolboymew@All_bonesJones "good enough" good enough for what? A programmer's drawing of a kirby is good enough. To me your "good enough", especially given the content y'all provide sounds more like "whatever, it will sell".
Y'all sound like AAA videogame makers in late 90's - early 00's who JUST discovered 3d graphics and decide to use it for everything, not caring if it looks ugly or not. image.png
@hj@All_bonesJones we're aware, but those results are still good enough at making something free and extremely indie vs not having any assets to use at all
@hj@coolboymew here's a character lora in action. is it completely 100% consistent with small details like the weird metal thing on her choker? no, but that can be touched up later with either photoshop or inpainting. is it consistent ENOUGH that the average layman will understand this is supposed to be the same character without having to put in loads of effort on my part? absolutely, this took under a minute
Bro, again, I'm talking about fucking clickteam fusion, game maker and etc. The kinda stuff you'd see on websites aggregating these. Free ass extremely indie games made by 1 dude who doesn't have the art skills. Here's the reality, not a lot of people can art, not a lot of people can even art good enough to the level of Smelda Macarena of Time, which is just made in mspaint
These people have to rip already made assets and that's it. But now, the AI is definitively good enough to be able to shit out "good enough" potable assets for a free ass game
@coolboymew@All_bonesJones and those mario fan games look better than that. I don't think people who make most mario/sonic fangames will move on to make original or other games just because there are assets. I mean most of these games were made because people like mario, not because they wanted to make a game and only had mario sprites at their disposal.
Those without skills should obtain better skills, i.e. learn to draw or be resourceful and creative, instead of learning how to write the prompt and make your stolen image collection learning model.
@hj@All_bonesJones it's already flooded with trillions of Mario fan games dude. This makes it so that those without skills may actually move on from Mario fangames because there'll be more assets
@All_bonesJones@coolboymew no, my argument hasn't changed, my quality standards are higher. Yes, real artists can sometimes forget details or make mistakes, but there are some general idea of a place, a certain floorplan, a certain context. A character might have specific poster hanging on the wall, they might have painted walls their favorite color, or place had a house fire or flooding that left some traces. Character might gather some scars or lose limbs along the way, gain augmentations, change outfits. The increasing complexity of storytelling weighs not only on person making it but also on AI.
Don't forget that all of that AI stuff, loras, models, writing correct prompts etc also takes some human learning and human skill, and at that point it slowly turns into confusing programming that takes more effort that produces underwhelming results. image.png
@hj@coolboymew i don't have any, but yes, you can train those. if you're going to demand that AI gets backgrounds correct and persistent 100% of the time, your argument has changed from "ai isn't good enough" to "ai is not SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER than real artists." even highly praised artists like murata forget stuff like the locations of minor background objects like shelves and which way the doors swing!
also i figured you were going to demand more varied poses as proof the character lora can handle those but you didn't so have the thing i rendered while i took a shower anyway
@hj@coolboymew >those mario fan games look better than that. >stolen image collection learning model. oh, ok. you're just butthurt about AI, don't understand how it works, and are arguing in bad faith :blobcat3c:
@All_bonesJones@coolboymew am I wrong though? "bad" art or simplistic art at very least is self-aware. AI art bros will swear by god, mouth foaming, that it looks good or at least "good enough".
@hj@coolboymew do you really think i'm gonna bother reading this when you've already made it clear you're arguing in bad faith and are just wasting my time
hj is often arguing in bad faith, but it's clear that the dude has no experience with the extremely indie scene of random clickteam and game maker games made by extreme amateurs
I had so much fun with the Biebersoft games, Tatsusoft, French RPG Maker community and the absolute random shit I'd find on personal websites' download sections
I remember, on RPG Maker 2000, a SUPER ambitious action rpg made on the engine, starred Link going into the past from a space age to save Zelda or some shit
Literally used Zelda characters, there were bunnies from Secret of Mana to kill, Link would go in powered up mode every 2 mins, the combat was jank and barely worked for the engine but damn was it ambitious. I remember they did one of those cutscenes where a mountain rise with an entrance and I was like "wtf how did they do that" because that's super complicated to do on 2000. I opened the project and still didn't get it
@coolboymew@All_bonesJones i played some newgrounds games, rpg maker games, game maker 5 games, and really don't see how AI art would help there at all.
@All_bonesJones@hj I remember they had a Zelda RPG project, attempt to recreate Zelda in RPG Maker 2000. Obviously this failed badly. Like lmao, the boss was a giant jpg of a Lizalfos that you had to hit in action rpg style
They eventually moved on to game maker. But years later they made a parody of their first attempts and it was so fucking kino. They made a Zelda dungeon based on that bureaucracy hell part of The Twelve Tasks of Asterix (where Asterix has to go to x and x counter to get the right document and etc) and it had the jpg Lizalfos boss at the end. That was amazing
@All_bonesJones@coolboymew also if i wanted attention i would pester some of my friends or make a throwaway account on discord to spam n word in some servers to piss off their moderators
@romin@PurpCat@All_bonesJones@coolboymew@hj the pizza machines apparently have huge mechanical flaws but it seems like making a mcdonalds burger robot should be the simplest thing.
@Moon@hj@All_bonesJones@coolboymew@romin you say that but you've never worked at a McDonald's franchise from hell with an owner never paying for grill and ice cream machine repairs
@PurpCat@All_bonesJones@Moon@coolboymew@romin i worked at mcdonalds, i was so incompetent and constantly stressed out to point of vertigo and slowdown on more meaningful positions they put me on permanent janitor duty, and it was fucking awesome.
Beats sweating at the grill or fryer, jannie can even go outside to sweep the roads and terrace during summer, and have an impromptu smoking break since no one watches. All while getting same pay as those poor bastards frying themselves at the grill and counting cash at kassa
@pomstan@PurpCat@All_bonesJones@Moon@coolboymew@romin i'll just hold my breath and mop it up as usual. Most fun is nonchalantly barging in the opposite gender's restroom and mopping it up like occupants don't exist.
@ic3l9@All_bonesJones@coolboymew in a way - yes. In a way that matters - depends on what you are taking photos of, owner might not like you taking photos.