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   clacke (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Thursday, 12-Oct-2023 10:25:30 JST clacke

   • Deniz Opal

   These graphs may be true for the US, but in Europe the Overton window has been shifting Right in my lifetime, since the Wall fell, mostly by copying bad ideas from the US.

   When I was a kid Sweden was still "the People's Home" and proudly Third Way, staunchly Social Democrat.

   In the 90s neoliberal policy ruled, copying Reaganomics, lowering taxes, selling public utilities to the market, engaging in New Public Management, but immigration policy was open and had popular support, xenophobes were politically active but were booed off the streets.

   In the 00s and 10s the xenophobes got their party into the mainstream and into the parliament and are now the biggest party.
   ♲ syzito.xyz/@selzero/1111991013…

   • clacke likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     clacke (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 01:22:22 JST clacke

     in reply to

     • Deniz Opal
     • Martin Owens :inkscape:

     @doctormo @selzero This one is clear, it's about "progressive" vs "conservative" social values, fifteen enumerated issues, it's not about economic policy, and it's about people's values over time versus people's labeling of themselves over time.

     According to the article the US is going ever more progressive, but that's not how it looks in Europe. In specific issues the trend is toward progressive, but not overall.

     On the one-dimensional political scale (yes, reality is more complex) government regulation of the capitalist economy generally goes together with progressive social views, which is why I phrased it the way I did, it's all proxies.

   • Embed this notice
     Martin Owens :inkscape: (doctormo@floss.social)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 01:22:23 JST Martin Owens :inkscape:

     in reply to

     • Deniz Opal

     @clacke @selzero

     Did you read Liberal as meaning Socialist?

     In America, liberals are for "social society" not a "social economy"

     Studies don't make it clear what they're measuring.

   • Embed this notice
     clacke (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 01:29:25 JST clacke

     in reply to

     • Deniz Opal
     • Martin Owens :inkscape:

     One thing that is nice in Scandinavia is that views on LGBTQ+ have become less conservative across the board, so it doesn't come up much in block politics.

     Same-sex civil unions and later same-sex marriage were developments that happened as national consensus and didn't become election issues.

     @selzero @doctormo

   • Embed this notice
     clacke (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 01:37:48 JST clacke

     in reply to

     • Deniz Opal
     • Martin Owens :inkscape:

     My understanding of the US spectrum and terminology:

     libranet.de/display/0b6b25a8-9…

     @doctormo @selzero

   • Embed this notice
     clacke (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 05:24:17 JST clacke

     in reply to

     • Deniz Opal
     • Martin Owens :inkscape:

     @doctormo Yes, I'm certainly astonished from time to time, wait what, *that* is decided and enforced on a state level, and yet, it is a country with a shared overall culture, party system and political discourse, so it is interesting to see what the trends are on average in the population, just like I described above the trend for first of all Sweden that I know better but also for the EU overall, which I can see reflected in e.g. EP composition and discourse.

     @selzero

   • Embed this notice
     Martin Owens :inkscape: (doctormo@floss.social)'s status on Friday, 13-Oct-2023 05:24:18 JST Martin Owens :inkscape:

     in reply to

     • Deniz Opal

     @clacke @selzero

     The US is not exactly one country. It's more like 50 waring states bolted together by a fairly thin federal system. Europeans would be surprised at how much the fed doesn't actually control and what is done is controlled by proxy.

     Regardless. The first past the post system in both the US and UK create a "loudest mouth wins" system, which makes it appear like the countries are rabidly crazy. But they're actually just subjugated non-democracies.