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   Janneke (janneke@todon.nl)'s status on Friday, 06-Oct-2023 02:03:56 JST Janneke

   Eating plant-based, even if you only do it "more often" and advocating to do so is really great, but has little to do with going #vegan and rejecting speciesism.
   "I'm only racist on Sundays"?

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     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Friday, 06-Oct-2023 02:03:54 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to
     how about "I don't always have the same energy / willpower budget to fight every form of injustice, and expecting me to do is itself an injustice"?
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     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Friday, 06-Oct-2023 06:06:39 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to
     don't worry, I was reacting more to my past self than to anything you wrote there. it's been an interesting journey to understand myself as neurodivergent, with superpowers and limitations; finally managing to start putting my veganism in practice, after learning to cook; embracing various other social and economic justice causes that have long attracted me but that I couldn't find emotional/attention/willpower budget to do enough about; realizing that support for causes is not binary, that every little bit can help and that demanding more than we (or others) can give often backfires... these have all been things I've learned in my many years of activism and getting things wrong :-) some recently, some longer ago, and I'm coming to this notion that sharing about them might do more good than keeping them to myself. I wonder if there'd be interest in a speech about the activism-relevant aspects of this personal journey at e.g. free software conferences such as libreplanet. would people enjoy such a meta thing?
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     Janneke (janneke@todon.nl)'s status on Friday, 06-Oct-2023 06:06:41 JST Janneke

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo
     Of course you're right and I sure hope you (or anyone else) didn't get the impression that I might expect anything from them.

     My path to veganism took me over two decades and I can feel both pretty bad and pretty good about that. Thinking about that I mostly feed bad and puzzled for denying for so long what seems so obvious now.

     Also, I said that eating only some more plant-based is great! And there's much to say for not going #vegan overnight as well.

     I just wanted to point out that it doesn't make sense to me for someone to call themselves vegan and still eat meat once a week. You can always say you're transitioning to veganism and try to talk about your weaknesses or difficulties.

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     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Friday, 06-Oct-2023 08:21:16 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva
     @janneke rats, I left out the most important and pertinent bit: that certain behaviors are more difficult for some than for others, and that it's not "just" a matter of budgets, but also of different perception of certain difficulties, and even actual personal differences that make certain behaviors more or less difficult. kind of obvious, but it took me a while to realize and then to formulate that, as I found myself unable, for various reasons, to engage as deeply with other causes as with my primary cause
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     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Friday, 06-Oct-2023 08:35:04 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to
     more concretely WRT veganism, I've long been sympathetic to the cause, for ethical and environmental reasons, and in a much broader perspective than "what do I eat", but "how do I favor behaviors, mine and others', that treat sentient beings well, rather than those that mistreat us?" (I include myself and other humans among sentient beings that should not be exploited, which makes going all-in a lot more complicated while living in a capitalist society)
     other very particular complicating factors, when it comes to food specifically: most of my immediate family needs to eat gluten-free, and most of the time I join them in solidarity, and that in itself reduces brutally the pool of available choices, especially for someone who couldn't cook. there's something in chicken eggs that I need to eat regularly, otherwise I slowly sink into depression without noticing before it's too late, which makes it very hard to experiment with replacements or even to find out what nutrient it is that keeps me functional.
     but none of these difficulties change how I feel about the lack of ethics in behaviors that bring harm onto sentient beings, or how I oppose them philosophically. however, the strength, the attention, and willpower I have available to fight this specific battle, rather than or in addition to other battles I chose to pick and those that I can't help picking, vary from day to day
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     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Friday, 06-Oct-2023 08:53:29 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to
     being unable to sustain as much effort as I'd like to various causes is something that was hard for me to come to terms with, to accept that it's not a character flaw, that seeking balance is essential for sustaining the efforts towards all of the causes, that struggling against oneself is draining, and that being judged for things that are hard or impossible for me by people who find them easy and have no clue how much effort they take me, how much effort it takes me just to be me, is fundamentally unfair.
     and then, this applies to others as well, and the golden rule requires me to offer others the consideration and appreciation that I'd like to see offered to myself
     so, yeah, I'm deeply vegan in my heart and soul, but I realize I cannot go all-in, and I allow myself to be happy that I've come as far as I have, voting with my wallet, learning to cook enough that I can prepare sustainable and healthy plant-based meals, and committing myself (so far) to making at least one vegetarian meal a day, fully aware that I'm not where I want to be and there's a long way to get there. supporting software freedom, human rights, human equity and diversity, sentient beings' rights and freedom are all philosophical beliefs I endorse and struggle to advance, and to encourage others to join, but not being a binary 1 in any of them doesn't make anyone a binary 0. the phrase "a racist on Sundays" resembles the misguided binary judgment that I've found effective at repelling support
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     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Friday, 06-Oct-2023 14:55:49 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • Seitansbraten
     I can't understand what you're trying to imply. here are some possibilities that occur to me:
     
     - surely in order to give energy one needs to have it to begin with, and ends up with less energy after giving it, so... that doesn't seem to lead to a sensible interpretation
     
     - perhaps you're saying that one feels better after doing good, and so it shouldn't be a net drain. that seems sensible, but it misses the point that it still takes effort (AKA energy) to do good before it feels good, and if you don't have the energy to "invest", it's no use to know that you'd get plenty of "interest" on the investment, it just adds to the frustration
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     Seitansbraten (seitansbraten@chaos.social)'s status on Friday, 06-Oct-2023 14:55:51 JST Seitansbraten

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo @janneke if you are vegan for the animals it's not taking but giving energy

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     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Sunday, 08-Oct-2023 06:16:54 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to
     I can relate. my conscience, this cricket that drives most of my conscious action, has gone through that transition. the problem is that, inside me, there are two wolves. and both are carnivore ;-)
     more seriously, I grew up having meat that I found delicious and comfortable to eat. it was so far removed from the cruel reality that animals are so mistreated throughout their lives that it takes a conscious effort to even make the connection and use it as motivator. and I still hope to get to eat vegan non-sentient meat in my lifetime.
     point being, I enjoy meat, I love its taste and texture, and I would be lying if I said that it's not pleasant, to this day. and there's a part of me that wants, that craves for that pleasure. it takes a huge conscious effort for me to override that craving, and I've never been very good at controlling food cravings. being vegan makes me feel ashamed and guilty of even admitting to want that pleasure, to enjoying it; it also significantly impairs the pleasure of the experience. but it doesn't make the craving go away! it's a permanent struggle against myself. and though I am very strong-willed and persistent, when I'm fighting against myself, that works both ways: neither opponent gives up or defeats the other, so both end up exhausted.
     just yesterday, I went through a major neurodivergence-related crisis, I felt depleted getting up, and I fought meat craving the whole day. the day sucked, but it was a small lucky victory
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     Janneke (janneke@todon.nl)'s status on Sunday, 08-Oct-2023 06:16:55 JST Janneke

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo thanks for.sharing.
     The "racist on Sundays" was not meant to put down or belittle the efforts it may take on ones path to become vegan.

     It was inspired by a comment that I got on birdsite; someone claimed they were vegan six days a week and go out hunting the seventh day.

     The road to veganism can take a fraction of a moment, just one decision, or it can take decades, but to me, veganism amongst other things, equals the realization and rejection of speciesism. That aspect is not only pretty binary but also irriversible. Either you've had the realization that we are all individuals and equals and all animals have the same.rights, or you didn't.

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     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Sunday, 08-Oct-2023 06:20:48 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to
     now, my point is to share the reality, to me and to many others, that struggles take effort, and even when we don't manage to make all the way like others who have it easy, or who are able to make greater or more focused efforts, it is still good that we undertake them. it is better to undertake them than to give up in frustration.