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   Tiago Peixoto (tiago@social.skewed.de)'s status on Monday, 25-Sep-2023 16:10:45 JST Tiago Peixoto

   This is truly astonishing. A literal "literal nazi" gets standing ovation in Canadian parliament.

   We didn't have such madness even in the absolute height of the cold war.

   https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-66908958

   • Embed this notice
     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Monday, 25-Sep-2023 16:10:43 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to
     this is for those who still don't believe western war propaganda drives people off track
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     Anthk (anthk@paquita.masto.host)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Sep-2023 01:31:59 JST Anthk

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo @tiago I trust neither sides, this is a thug war.

     Alexandre Oliva likes this.
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     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Sep-2023 01:34:05 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • Anthk
     sounds right
     people know and quote that the first victim in a war is truth, but they keep on believing and pushing their favorite plutocratic empire's propaganda, even while doubting and denouncing the other plutocratic empire's propaganda. shouldn't there a tax on gullibility or something?
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     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Sep-2023 03:07:18 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • Alfred M. Szmidt
     I accept your criticism WRT fact checking. I haven't checked the facts thoroughly. that someone was regarded a hero for voluntarily fighting the forces that ultimately defeated the nazi was evidently damning enough for me. in my reasoning, it's not relevant whether he was or was not a nazi. I'm not judging him. I'm judging those who mistook him for a hero over the allegation that he fought along with the nazi. at least one person has done just that, and I welcome any rationale you can provide in this person's defense. I understand others may have just been misled by him. I wish the "hero" had had the courage to tell them all right then that he didn't deserve that honor, that he was still ashamed of either choosing that side, or of not having resisted the imposition of fighting with that side, whatever it was.
     but that he was celebrated as a hero for fighting the current enemy back when they were an ally... but wait! oceania has always been at war with eurasia! damn eurasia and its infiltrates and propaganda for confusing us so!
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     Alfred M. Szmidt (amszmidt@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Sep-2023 03:07:19 JST Alfred M. Szmidt

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva
     • Anthk

     @lxo @anthk First victim? Please stop apologising for Putins genocide! What next, will you say that WW2 never happened? That Germany was the victim? Cause that is your hill that you are working to roll down from ...

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     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Sep-2023 03:14:46 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • Alfred M. Szmidt
     I meant first victim of a war, alluding specifically to the current conflict between Russia and USNato/Ukraine. whatever facts you bring up from WW2 are AFAIK part of a different war, so the inferences you suggest are not correct. unless you're suggesting the present conflict is still WW2, which I'm not ready to outright reject, but I'd require plenty of evidence to take at face value. are you saying it is the same war, although allies then are now fighting each other, and enemies then are now supporting the same side?
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     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Sep-2023 04:19:27 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • Alfred M. Szmidt
     agreed. I tried to make it clear that my concern was not with what he was, but rather with why other(s?) decided to praise him. that's a symptom of the present and dangerous propaganda machine at work, strong enough to drive westerners to celebrate an alleged nazi, and even to defend an alleged nazi as if it was about him
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     Alfred M. Szmidt (amszmidt@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Sep-2023 04:19:28 JST Alfred M. Szmidt

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo that others consider someone a hero is not the fault of the person who is considered a hero. You should damn those who consider anyone a hero.. it is not the “heroes” choice to be one or not. If you got an invite when you are 90 by your government that you might partially like.. would you not accept?
     I will always side with innocence over accusing someone — unless they said it themselves there and now.

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     Alfred M. Szmidt (amszmidt@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Sep-2023 16:13:16 JST Alfred M. Szmidt

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo once again your accusing someone without knowing their stance. If anything is propaganda, it is this. All the bloak was accused for is wearing a uniform, of what we might consider the wrong side. If he had worn a Stalin uniform would he get the same hatred? Doubt it… Stalin was as big of a turd as the other one but nobody seems to remember that.

   • Embed this notice
     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Sep-2023 16:13:16 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • Alfred M. Szmidt
     no, sir, I'm not accusing the alleged war veteran of anything. for the third time, my concern has nothing whatsoever to do with him. for all I know, he could have been an actor, and his history entirely invented.
     the fact I'm worried about is that people in the Canadian congress honored him and treated him as a hero for having allegedly fought against the Russians during WWII. that, meaning, honoring someone for that reason, is what I find profoundly damning and concerning
     
     whereas you are still accusing me while clearly not getting my stance. not cool, man, not cool.
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     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Sep-2023 18:33:49 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • Alfred M. Szmidt
     I'm not doing that, though I think I can see and believe that you think I am. we are miscommunicating at a level that makes it very hard to overcome. you go back to debating whether or not the alleged former ukranian soldier was or wasn't something, but that *completely* and *deeply* misses the point. my qualm is with the representatives who chose to honor someone as a hero for having taken part in a war. let me show you how fscked up that is with a mix of fictional and real people taking the place of that specific former soldier, to show you how it's not about him
     
     1. this man is a hero, he fought at WWII. (*applause* without even knowing what he fought for or against)
     
     2. this man is a hero, he was born in Austria, he was friends with my grandfather, and they both fought together at WWII
     (same man as in 1; his name was Adolph)
     
     3. this man is a hero, he was born in Ukraine, and he fought at WWII
     (is this the canadian man we're talking about? my nazi grandfather? someone else? can't tell; would the parliament honor and applaud them anyway?)
     
     4. this young man is a hero. he was born in ukraine, he dreamed of fighting fascists like his great-grandparents did, and so he jumped at the chance when war knocked on his door: he became a volunteer soldier
     (*applause* without even knowing what army he joined; note: both sides have soldiers who believe to be fighting fascist enemies)
     
     see what problem I'm getting at? it's not about him at all!
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     Alfred M. Szmidt (amszmidt@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Sep-2023 18:33:50 JST Alfred M. Szmidt

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo yes, yes you did. Read your last sentence where you continue the whole “he is a Nazi narrative”. It has literally nothing to do with anything.

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     Alfred M. Szmidt (amszmidt@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Sep-2023 18:33:50 JST Alfred M. Szmidt

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo what’s not cool is you doing exactly what you accuse others of doing. How about we all stop assuming shit.

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     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Sep-2023 19:28:14 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • Alfred M. Szmidt
     or maybe you're right, I was misinformed and misled. the reports I read said nothing whatsoever about his even having a chance to speak, and focused on the house speaker's apology for labeling him a hero for having fought in WWII.
     now I look forward to listening to his speech. I expect he will have denounced and repented his youth's mistakes, and called out the propaganda that drives peoples to invariably unjust and dangerous but very profitable wars.
     but then, what would the house speaker be apologizing for?!? for having given voice to someone who made a mistake and learned better?
     please do share your sources instead of arguing from your position of privileged information with others who don't know better. don't assume I've seen all you have, or know all you have. I'm happy to be corrected when I'm wrong, and I thank you for calling out my incorrect assumptions and my mistakes, if that's what they turn out to be.
     for as long as I only have reports that support each other, I have little reason to doubt them. now I have your conflicting report. it's not enough to establish a different certainty, but it does cast doubt (thanks), and if you can back that up, that's an even stronger case. and if the reports conflict, I can then use my technique to find common ground (and likely truth) out of conflicting reports, so I welcome your links to your sources about the matter. thanks
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     Alfred M. Szmidt (amszmidt@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Sep-2023 19:28:15 JST Alfred M. Szmidt

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo it is quite clear why he was applauded — for his speech (which was a nice one). You’re clearly wearing some heavily shaded glasses.

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     Alfred M. Szmidt (amszmidt@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Sep-2023 20:44:57 JST Alfred M. Szmidt

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo The house speaker is a It back what happened a few years ago ... it is politics, projection and boot licking. Politicians are the worse of the bunch.

     But you're listening to reports, and that is the issue ... don't. Ignore them. Read first hand accounts instead of noise on the internet where everyone is a dog. E.g., listen to the speech your self .. and then decide if it is worth applauding to or not, instead of second hand accounts from who know what.

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     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Sep-2023 20:44:57 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • Alfred M. Szmidt
     that is reasonable advice. but unfortunately I can't find the speech or other first-hand reports on my own. and then, even first-hand reports may have undisclosed biases and interests. that's why I find "my" dialectic technique to seek truth out of conflicting reports so useful: it is like science, in that it progressively filters out noise and converges on truth, regardless of the motivations behind the noises. I can't control the amount of noise in the random sources that reach me, I can resist only so much the triggers that intentional pieces of propaganda try to inflict on us, but I can learn something by contrasting conflicting reports, if they find their way to me, or if I manage to find them on my own, which is getting harder and harder in the increasingly toxic web
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     Alfred M. Szmidt (amszmidt@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Sep-2023 20:55:26 JST Alfred M. Szmidt

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo when lack of evidence, then it is better to not comment at all. *shrug*

   • Embed this notice
     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Sep-2023 20:55:26 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • Alfred M. Szmidt
     with that piece of advice, I disagree a bit. publishing noisy results enables others to aggregate and filter out noise. had I not interacted with you on this matter, I wouldn't have learned anything other than what was in the report.
     but yeah, reacting and most of all *deciding* based on incomplete information often leads to mistakes. ironically, that is precisely what I was criticizing the canadian representatives for.
   • Embed this notice
     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 14:53:25 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • Alfred M. Szmidt
     https://diasporabr.com.br/posts/6080722
     is there any truth to these reports?
     https://www.newsweek.com/yaroslav-hunka-alleged-nazi-justice-poland-1829892
     https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/yaroslav-hunka-poland-minister-extradite-1.6978266
     neither report mentions a speech by the former soldier. are you sure there was one on this occasion?
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     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 15:04:25 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • Alfred M. Szmidt
     There doesn't seem to be any speech by Mr Hunka here, it seems to be just as reported everywhere I read about it:
     https://invidious.snopyta.org/watch?v=LbuWNyyo7qI
     
     could you please share the link to the nice speech you have listened to? was that before or after the standing ovations depicted in this video? or is this video (and the other similar ones all over) a deep fake made by Putin to seed dissent among the Westerners? or was the whole thing hallucinated by stochastic parrots? :-)
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     Alfred M. Szmidt (amszmidt@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 17:07:18 JST Alfred M. Szmidt

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo Sorry, I won't answer you... you're being condescending with this "parrot" nonsense. Right now I'm happily considering to block you. Obviously there was a speech, you don't stand and give an ovation for someone otherwise. You can figure it out yourself.

   • Embed this notice
     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Wednesday, 27-Sep-2023 17:07:18 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • Alfred M. Szmidt
     you don't seem to have appreciated my attempt to lighten things up with an attempt at humor about LLMs :-(
     the first-hand video evidence shows there was more than one standing ovation without any speech. was the speech you listened to before or after the 2-minute video I linked to?