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Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.net)'s status on Monday, 25-Sep-2023 13:42:49 JST 
Alexandre Oliva
is this the flip side of the paradox of tolerance? -
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🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Monday, 25-Sep-2023 13:42:50 JST 
🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱
Glad we agree that no, bigotry expressed towards bigots doesnt make you a bigot.
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Truth Sandwich 🥪🇺🇸😷 (truthsandwich@qoto.org)'s status on Monday, 25-Sep-2023 13:42:52 JST 
Truth Sandwich 🥪🇺🇸😷
@freemo @freepeoplesfreepress @admitsWrongIfProven
No.
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🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Monday, 25-Sep-2023 13:42:53 JST
🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱
I think there is a difference between "being a bigot" and carrying out a bigoted act.
If a person who is constantly evil, happens to do a single isolated good act, would you say their a good person? No.
So someone who might be bigoted towards bigots in isolation, but is not generally bigoted towards people or groups as a pattern, then they would not be a bigot, by the same logic.
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Free Peoples Free Press (freepeoplesfreepress@qoto.org)'s status on Monday, 25-Sep-2023 13:42:54 JST 
Free Peoples Free Press
@freemo @TruthSandwich @admitsWrongIfProven
Source: Medium Com
"Bigotry. Obstinate or unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction; in particular, prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group".
Dear Dr. Freemo: Are you saying that I cannot escape being identified as a bigot even if I only refuse to associate with known persons or groups or organizations that knowingly and intentionally engage in anti-social behaviors?
I am thoroughly following this thread, you said paraphrased, that under certain circumstances being a bigot is not always bad. What I am beginning to comprehend is that bigotry is relative to the inherent circumstantial causative factors to which we are exposed to, we acquire as individuals our own personal good or bad biases via direct and indirect environmental interactive influences. So in a sense, bigotry can be a positive self defense mechanism or bigotry can be a negative offensive attack against an innocent person(s) or group(s) or organization(s).
Bigotry is a double edged sword!
Sincerely, Monica Andrews, Editor-in-chief, #FreePeoplesFreePress News
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🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Monday, 25-Sep-2023 13:42:55 JST
🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱
The dictionary definition is:
obstinate **or** unreasonable attachment to a belief, opinion, or faction, in particular prejudice against a person or people on the basis of their membership of a particular group.
Hating bigots with a very firm stance would be "obstinate attachment to an opinion, in particular prejudice against a person on the basis of membership of a particular group".. that group being bigots...
So yes, strictly speaking bigotry towards bigots is bigotry, its just proof that not all bigotry is bad.
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Truth Sandwich 🥪🇺🇸😷 (truthsandwich@qoto.org)'s status on Monday, 25-Sep-2023 13:42:56 JST
Truth Sandwich 🥪🇺🇸😷
@freemo @freepeoplesfreepress @admitsWrongIfProven
No, actually, it would not. Bigotry isn't defined as any hostility towards something, but specifically as unjustified hostility.
Hating Nazis is entirely justified. Failing to hate them would be bigotry.
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🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Monday, 25-Sep-2023 13:42:57 JST
🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱
Strictly speaking it would be bigotry, but that just shows not all bigotry is bad :)
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Truth Sandwich 🥪🇺🇸😷 (truthsandwich@qoto.org)'s status on Monday, 25-Sep-2023 13:42:58 JST
Truth Sandwich 🥪🇺🇸😷
@freepeoplesfreepress @freemo @admitsWrongIfProven
It's not bigotry to "discriminate" against bigots. It would be bigotry not to.
Fundamentally, bigotry requires making the mistake of believing that background characteristics -- the stuff people don't chose for themselves, can't change about themselves, and has no moral importance -- define tribes that are in competition.
The core of racism isn't the false belief that race X is better than race Y, it's that races even exist in a way that is morally relevant. Race is not a biological fact, it's a sociological construct, and it's morally neutral.
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Free Peoples Free Press (freepeoplesfreepress@qoto.org)'s status on Monday, 25-Sep-2023 13:42:59 JST
Free Peoples Free Press
@TruthSandwich @freemo @admitsWrongIfProven
Dear Truth Sandwich: Yes plenty of Democrats demonstrated bigotry against women and against black people. So yes some Democrats are bigots, yes some Democrats are anti black, yes they have targeted U.S. Vice President Harris. Within this specific post I totally agree with you Truth Sandwich. I also want to add that Democrats should not discriminate against any group, except for fascists who want to destroy our fundamental principles of democracy. It is possible that anti-social people are natural bigots, we would have to prove that this is in fact true, I group surrounded by Nazis and KKK, the Nazis and KKK can be found everywhere, I was constantly exposed to racially discrimination. I never became a bigot. So what makes a person become a bigot?
Sincerely, Monica Andrews, Editor-in-chief, #FreePeoplesFreePress News
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Truth Sandwich 🥪🇺🇸😷 (truthsandwich@qoto.org)'s status on Monday, 25-Sep-2023 13:43:00 JST
Truth Sandwich 🥪🇺🇸😷
Look at white supremacy: yes, it's bigoted against various groups not considered white, but it overlaps heavily with misogyny, homophobia, and other non-racial forms of bigotry.
This is not surprising if you realize that the bigotry is the common factor. Once you're a bigot, who you're bigoted against is contingent.
If you look at the shitshow after the primaries that chose Obama, you can see that plenty of Democrats showed bigotry against women and against Black folks (and, often, both: witness the current treatment of Harris).
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🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Monday, 25-Sep-2023 13:43:02 JST
🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱
That is **not** what I said...
You claimed bigots are always bigots, they jsut change which group they target
So im asking all the people who switch from the DNC to the GOP... when they were int he DNC which group were they bigots towards, and by switching to the GOP what is the new group?
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NotHelpfulUntilIAm🥤 🌛 🗄️ (admitswrongifproven@qoto.org)'s status on Monday, 25-Sep-2023 13:43:03 JST 
NotHelpfulUntilIAm🥤 🌛 🗄️
@TruthSandwich Lol, he got you there, @freemo !
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Truth Sandwich 🥪🇺🇸😷 (truthsandwich@qoto.org)'s status on Monday, 25-Sep-2023 13:43:04 JST
Truth Sandwich 🥪🇺🇸😷
Wait, you think there are no bigots in the DNC?!
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🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Monday, 25-Sep-2023 13:43:05 JST
🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱
Ok so when an adult goes from being a supporter of the DNC to being a supporter of the GOP... what group were they a bigot to under the DNC? And what potential cause is there to decide to stop being a biggot against the group they attacked as part of the DNC and now be a biggot to this new group the GOP attacked?
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Truth Sandwich 🥪🇺🇸😷 (truthsandwich@qoto.org)'s status on Monday, 25-Sep-2023 13:43:06 JST
Truth Sandwich 🥪🇺🇸😷
You don't go from not being a bigot to being bigoted against a particular group. You go from being a bigot to finding groups to be bigoted against.
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🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Monday, 25-Sep-2023 13:43:07 JST
🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱
So how exactly does a non-bigot become a bigot? We all know it happens because we know for a fact some people (however many that may be) have at some point later in life changed their position... So what, exactly, causes a bigot to become a bigot then if it isnt related to expiernce?
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Truth Sandwich 🥪🇺🇸😷 (truthsandwich@qoto.org)'s status on Monday, 25-Sep-2023 13:43:09 JST
Truth Sandwich 🥪🇺🇸😷
As I said, it's because bigotry doesn't come from bad experiences.
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NotHelpfulUntilIAm🥤 🌛 🗄️ (admitswrongifproven@qoto.org)'s status on Monday, 25-Sep-2023 13:43:10 JST
NotHelpfulUntilIAm🥤 🌛 🗄️
@TruthSandwich @freemo Do you have a supporting reasoning for "You have to already be a bigot"?
Because i can see freemos point:
A developing personality can be pushed to hollow right-wing group togetherness bs if treated badly by self-proclaimed left-wing people. -
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Truth Sandwich 🥪🇺🇸😷 (truthsandwich@qoto.org)'s status on Monday, 25-Sep-2023 13:43:11 JST
Truth Sandwich 🥪🇺🇸😷
Again, no. It's an excuse, not a reason.
You have to already be a bigot.
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🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Monday, 25-Sep-2023 13:43:12 JST
🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱
@TruthSandwich I do agree, its not a good moral excuse for people who abandon the left for the right.
But whether it is a morally justified reason for switching sides or not, the sad truth is, that **is** the effect it will have all the same.
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Truth Sandwich 🥪🇺🇸😷 (truthsandwich@qoto.org)'s status on Monday, 25-Sep-2023 13:43:13 JST
Truth Sandwich 🥪🇺🇸😷
Jo is an asshole; I blocked them some time ago. But the existence of assholes is not an excuse to become one.
Nobody is being forced into fascism.
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🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱 (freemo@qoto.org)'s status on Monday, 25-Sep-2023 13:43:14 JST
🎓 Doc Freemo :jpf: 🇳🇱
Remember everyone, we have gotten to the point where sincerely wanted to understand a liberals opinion and politely and respectfully ask for their views in an attempt to consider them.... we call that sealioning now... yup.. and people wonder why so many people are all of a sudden supporting fring right wing shit... people like this have pushed all the rational people away from the left towards the middle and in some cases even all the way onto the right.
QT: https://mastodon.social/@JoBlakely/111115890759371917
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