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   Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 22-Sep-2023 19:28:08 JST Sexy Moon
   China has another problem. I don't understand it well but here's how it was explained to me:
   
   1. A lot of the lifting out of poverty in China was by urbanization and people moving from the country to the cities and getting factory jobs.
   
   2. There still are about 600 million very poor rural Chinese.
   
   3. Because of the trade deficit is is becoming impossible to add more manufacturing, which was the mechanism for getting the previous people out of poverty.
   
   Urbanization was an obvious big win for getting people out of poverty but the low-hanging fruit may have been already gathered and now there may not be a great way to get the rest of these people up to the same standard of living.
   • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
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     ロミンちゃん (romin@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 22-Sep-2023 19:36:30 JST ロミンちゃん

     in reply to
     @Moon historically speaking, nobody's raised an eyebrow when hundreds of millions of chynese people have died. Why would you expect now or in the future to be different?
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     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 22-Sep-2023 19:38:34 JST Sexy Moon

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     • Maija (Under 7666's Bed Arc)
     @maija I don't think this is a problem unique to communism and it's not meant to be a criticism of China. They got 850 million people out of crushing poverty and apparently their urban poverty as of like 2014 was one of the lowest in the world so they have accomplished very admirable things regardless of how I feel about their political organization.
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     Maija (Under 7666's Bed Arc) (maija@comp.lain.la)'s status on Friday, 22-Sep-2023 19:38:35 JST Maija (Under 7666's Bed Arc)

     in reply to
     @Moon this goes for most regions in the world no? rural being quite poor or impoverished in comparison to urban parts
     ofc in the name of communism that urban wealth shouldve been redistributed, but thats not really china
     i suppose theres just so many people and not enough well earning jobs they cant get everyone on that higher standard, and probably not the best for stability if they drop em all down
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     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 22-Sep-2023 19:38:48 JST Sexy Moon

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     • p
     @p I'll watch it.
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     p (p@raru.re)'s status on Friday, 22-Sep-2023 19:38:49 JST p

     in reply to

     china is turbo fucked demographically
     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTbILK0fxDY
     @Moon

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     Maija (Under 7666's Bed Arc) (maija@comp.lain.la)'s status on Friday, 22-Sep-2023 19:43:11 JST Maija (Under 7666's Bed Arc)

     in reply to
     @Moon oh yeah dont misconstrue it, it is genuinely impress this isnt meant as an ideology critique just an aside. for a communist state that wealth divide isnt the most communist thing. but it makes sense, and theyre still making good progress, not nearly as bad as many places. i suppose the difficulty is transitioning to white color exports, at which that excess could potentially be taken and used to lift those rural population who are little above sustenance
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     Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Friday, 22-Sep-2023 19:49:49 JST Sexy Moon

     in reply to

     • Maija (Under 7666's Bed Arc)
     @maija I have read some stuff about this, it's basically impossible to solve poverty while maintaining an equitable system at the same time. People say that China isn't really communist. I think it is a matter of perspective. Deng properly understood that you could not transition a massively poor and undeveloped country to communism, I mean I think that's even basic Marxism ideology. He intended to leverage socialism to do a managed development of the country but with heavy government oversight to prevent capitalist abuses and excesses, and it clearly was a big success. So, not communism but an intelligent plan to get to communism through socialism. My uneducated opinion though is that Xi is fucking this all up.
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     Maija (Under 7666's Bed Arc) (maija@comp.lain.la)'s status on Friday, 22-Sep-2023 19:58:05 JST Maija (Under 7666's Bed Arc)

     in reply to
     @Moon i suppose i am sort of mixing communism/socialism here in colloquial usage, but yeah i'd generally agree. the wealth divide isn't in that spirit but atleast in my eyes, true equity isn't quite possible, especially if your coming from that low. i mean china only rose the extent it did due to playing off of international markets so it's understandable they'd have to adopt some elements and raise certain classes while keeping it in check which honestly they've done good at.
     but china isn't exactly me field and i've stopped reading news for the most part lately, i'm just sort of rambling my takes here.
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     Aven (aven@shitposter.club)'s status on Saturday, 23-Sep-2023 00:10:52 JST Aven

     in reply to

     • sim
     • Aven
     • Maija (Under 7666's Bed Arc)
     @sim @Moon @maija China is currently having trouble keeping people employed, due to exports being saturated, so for instance they do imperialism in Africa:
     
     China sells infrastructure construction to African countries, to get them in debt to China and in exchange for votes at the UN. China brings all of its own workers to Africa (it's a jobs program) and does not hire the locals. They build the highways, but not in a way to last. The locals do not know how to maintain the new infrastructure, and it deteriorates in a few years. Employment accomplished. African country in debt to China accomplished.
     
     This is also where the "It's all so tiresome" meme comes from.
     
     https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/its-all-so-tiresome
     Sexy Moon likes this.
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     sim@shitposter.club's status on Saturday, 23-Sep-2023 00:10:53 JST sim

     in reply to

     • Maija (Under 7666's Bed Arc)
     @Moon @maija Isn't it just industry at this point? They displaced a lot of people from the countryside to go and work in the factories since the West outsourced their industry to countries like China or India after getting better working conditions. At some point it will probably be expensive to live in the countryside like it is here.
     
     Sure you have lifted people out of poverty but at what cost? Over here, it was the cost of their health, living in bad working conditions and even the housing was bad. People were displaced and lost their country jobs so they had to move.
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     Aven (aven@shitposter.club)'s status on Saturday, 23-Sep-2023 00:10:53 JST Aven

     in reply to

     • sim
     • Maija (Under 7666's Bed Arc)
     @sim @Moon @maija
     China's economic problems stems from its cultural problems, where appearances are far more important than reality, and cheating is normalized, and statistics are a thing to cook for careerism, or at least to not lose everything by admitting there are problems. It's hard for westerners to comprehend, but cheating is completely normalized in China.
     
     This culture is the heritage of when China was more communist. The "people moving from the countryside to the city to get factory jobs" was not by choice, they were forced and collectivized and families very intentionally split apart so that the nation/government would be their family instead of their traditional parents and siblings and children.
     
     The communists industrialized China by attempting to make steel in huge bonfires, outdoors, which resulted in massive deforestation for fuel and produced useless slag. They planted rice too densely, for photo-ops of their revolutionary hyper-productivity, and the crops failed. They did collective farming by taking people from the city who didn't know how to farm and making them farm. Treating people as interchangeable parts with no skillsets is very common in communism. They had a huge campaign to kill all the sparrows because they eat crops. They killed them, then the locusts came, which the sparrows normally keep under control. Tens of millions died in The Great Leap Forward.
     
     The death rate only slowed when localities started allowing private industry, and they only allowed it because they could do it secretly and at least not starve to death like the others. This became endemic and a relaxation of central planning followed. Of course there were no private property rights, and it this pseudo-capitalism was allowed because it got economic results. The economic system has since then been more like Nazi germany, where central planning is given up on, at least in the details, but private property is a privilege which can be seized at any time for any reason, and not a right.
     
     Central planning and communism also allowed the One Child Policy, which was, is, and still will be incredibly destructive.
     
     Now they're into the environmentalism/green trend, for carbon credits and prestige, so orders from on high (the Chinese Communist Party) are to make things green. Since it's impossible to fulfill these lofty goals they've been assigned, they cheat, and literally paint the trees green and cover the barren hills with fake plastic leaves, and plant stones to make it look like agriculture is occurring from a distance or in satellite photos.
     
     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AynNsPs9i80