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   sim@shitposter.club's status on Tuesday, 12-Sep-2023 05:11:27 JST sim

   • lait accompli
   • Trygve Kalland 🇺🇦
   @genmaicha @trygvekalland Imagine if we did support Ukraine with military aid and it didn't end in a nuclear fallout, who in their right minds would want to arm the second largest country in Europe and that we know is corrupt? I mean, that's going to end well...
   • Embed this notice
     l (lebronjames75@shitposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Sep-2023 05:11:14 JST l

     in reply to

     • lait accompli
     • Trygve Kalland 🇺🇦
     @trygvekalland @sim @genmaicha sim has a lot of utopic beliefs, let it be
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     sim@shitposter.club's status on Tuesday, 12-Sep-2023 05:11:17 JST sim

     in reply to

     • lait accompli
     • Trygve Kalland 🇺🇦
     @trygvekalland @genmaicha Now if only there were an example of the US doing something similar in the past....
     
     "Following the Cuban Revolution of 1959, bilateral relations deteriorated substantially. The US government had the Central Intelligence Agency recruit operatives in Cuba to carry out a violent campaign of terrorism and sabotage on the island, killing civilians and causing economic damage. The CIA also trained and commanded pilots to bomb civilian airfields."
     
     I'm sure the Middle East problems have us covered too. And the elites in the US absolutely have influence and investments all over the place, it is hard to not feel their corruption. Same playbook, different elites. Hell, Putin sees himself as fighting Nazis which is defined slightly different to Russia, fighting some group like this is a common theme as a justification. Funny how oil comes up a lot too.
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     Trygve Kalland 🇺🇦 (trygvekalland@snabelen.no)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Sep-2023 05:11:17 JST Trygve Kalland 🇺🇦

     in reply to

     • lait accompli

     @sim @genmaicha You have no idea what’s going on in Ukraine, or you’re just totally callous.

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     Trygve Kalland 🇺🇦 (trygvekalland@snabelen.no)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Sep-2023 05:11:19 JST Trygve Kalland 🇺🇦

     in reply to

     • lait accompli

     @sim @genmaicha If you think the US is "doing the same thing” as Russia in this case, there’s no point in having this discussion. That’s either batshit crazy or deeply dishonest.

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     sim@shitposter.club's status on Tuesday, 12-Sep-2023 05:11:20 JST sim

     in reply to

     • lait accompli
     • Trygve Kalland 🇺🇦
     @trygvekalland @genmaicha Letting a brutal dictatorship occupy a democratising neighbour doesn't justify letting another superpower swoop in to do the same thing. Have we learned nothing from other wars? Better to create a peace treaty with Russia, to agree to leave Ukraine to be neutral rather than making them more western or Russian. But this is difficult to do while they have resources to covet and we have the propaganda of spreading democracy and freedom all over the globe. Even to people that don't want it.
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     Trygve Kalland 🇺🇦 (trygvekalland@snabelen.no)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Sep-2023 05:11:21 JST Trygve Kalland 🇺🇦

     in reply to

     • lait accompli

     @sim @genmaicha Again, thinking there's a lot of bad stuff going on, doesn't really justify letting a brutal dictatorship occupy a democratizing neighbour.

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     sim@shitposter.club's status on Tuesday, 12-Sep-2023 05:11:22 JST sim

     in reply to

     • lait accompli
     • Trygve Kalland 🇺🇦
     @trygvekalland @genmaicha Do you really think that there isn't corruption on every side? Do you really think that people like Biden's son aren't interested in the oil in the disputed areas? No one comes out looking good in this. Russia is not the only one with elites that invest in and extract resources in other countries. Russia isn't the only country that doesn't let other countries be when they try to go solo, decide their own values or decide to not trade with them. They use the same playbook and give us propaganda.
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     sim@shitposter.club's status on Tuesday, 12-Sep-2023 05:11:23 JST sim

     in reply to

     • lait accompli
     • Trygve Kalland 🇺🇦
     @trygvekalland @genmaicha How do you address an issue as complex as this? Sending aid doesn't fix the corruption that started this war, if anything it might even be foreign aid from both Russia and the West that causes countries to destabilise because they have conflicting ideas. Russia wants the oil, the US want the oil... or rather the elites interested in it want it. Not even the threat of nuclear war stops their meddling.
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     Trygve Kalland 🇺🇦 (trygvekalland@snabelen.no)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Sep-2023 05:11:23 JST Trygve Kalland 🇺🇦

     in reply to

     • lait accompli

     @sim @genmaicha Yeah, I think you’re missing the point. If corruption caused this war, it’s the corruption in the Kremlin, that saw a democratising neighbor threaten their mafia-like tentacles.

     Don’t confuse this issue with half-cooked conspiracy theories.

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     Trygve Kalland 🇺🇦 (trygvekalland@snabelen.no)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Sep-2023 05:11:24 JST Trygve Kalland 🇺🇦

     in reply to

     • lait accompli

     @sim @genmaicha I’m sorry you feel bad, but you’re not really addressing the issue.

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     sim@shitposter.club's status on Tuesday, 12-Sep-2023 05:11:25 JST sim

     in reply to

     • lait accompli
     • Trygve Kalland 🇺🇦
     @trygvekalland @genmaicha The only people that I feel sorry for are the ordinary citizens that are suffering in this, and that includes all the citizens in the west alongside future generations that are paying for yet another war in Europe, as if the wars elsewhere weren't enough... most likely because of geopolitics and the resources in question here. That is a common theme.
     
     Democracy? I don't recall ever getting to decide whether to join this war or send aid or to accept people in. Or whether to be a part of NATO. Instead I get guilt tripped into it, my country becomes more crowded and poorer for it. But hey, we get to prop up yet another state that treats its own citizens like shit and pretend that it is a democracy and that we are fighting for democracy and freedom. It feels good.
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     Trygve Kalland 🇺🇦 (trygvekalland@snabelen.no)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Sep-2023 05:11:26 JST Trygve Kalland 🇺🇦

     in reply to

     • lait accompli

     @sim @genmaicha May I remind you that Ukraine is in the same position as most of eastern Europe after the fall of the iron curtain, and that EU and NATO was used effectively to support democratisation and anti-corruption efforts in these countries? The pro-democracy forces in Ukraine has literally chosen to die in the streets and fields to protect these same efforts at home. It’s kind of weird to believe that they won’t succeed where their neighbours did.

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     sim@shitposter.club's status on Tuesday, 12-Sep-2023 05:24:42 JST sim

     in reply to

     • l
     • lait accompli
     • Trygve Kalland 🇺🇦
     @lebronjames75 @trygvekalland @genmaicha The solutions of a peace treaty and non-interventionism would be utopic. Also letting Ukraine citizens determine their own future, doing things their own way. With the corruption, I don't think that is possible. When the disputed regions no longer have the resources then there may at least be less interest in a conflict. Again, the citizens lose out.
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     l (lebronjames75@shitposter.club)'s status on Tuesday, 12-Sep-2023 05:24:42 JST l

     in reply to

     • lait accompli
     • Trygve Kalland 🇺🇦
     @sim @genmaicha @trygvekalland utopic beliefs are worthless