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Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 20:42:37 JST Sexy Moon

so apparently ps/2 mouse connector and ps/2 keyboard connector are somehow different. the result is that it doesn't seem to be possible to use the RS-232 internal connectors on a motherboard to hook up a keyboard.

I'm looking at industrial motherboards that may be able to support TempleOS, and that have an ISA slot for a legacy sound card for DOS games.

In conversation about a year ago from shitposter.club permalink
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  Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 20:44:24 JST Sexy Moon
  in reply to
  - cool_boy_mew
  @coolboymew I found out that those typically are, internally, a USB controller that then downshifts to PS/2 connectors. They don't work in DOS.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  cool_boy_mew (coolboymew@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 20:44:25 JST cool_boy_mew
  in reply to
  
  @Moon a two in one adapter doesn't do the job either?
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 20:44:49 JST Sexy Moon
  in reply to
  
  After I get several big projects done I want to investigate what it would take to get a custom mini x86 designed by an alibaba company, that has all the stuff retro hobbyists want
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 20:47:04 JST Sexy Moon
  in reply to
  
  I don't know what this takes but I'll learn.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 20:47:31 JST Sexy Moon
  in reply to
  - cool_boy_mew
  @coolboymew yes exactly but without the idiotic limitations.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  cool_boy_mew (coolboymew@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 20:47:32 JST cool_boy_mew
  in reply to
  
  @Moon like those weird retro minicomputers that LGR got a few months ago?
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 20:48:01 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
  in reply to
  
  @Moon tbh i'd stick with emulation.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 20:54:52 JST Sexy Moon
  in reply to
  - cool_boy_mew
  @coolboymew needs to have:
  
  1. ps/2 keyboard and mouse
  2. RS-232 either DB-9 connectors or headers on the motherboard
  3. 1 or 2 ISA slots
  4. Normal BIOS but preferably amenable to coreboot/seabios
  5. IDE connector for ATAPI CD-ROM that works in MS-DOS
  6. SD card adapter that is exposed as an IDE interface, a second IDE connector
  7. 64-bit x86 CPU
  8. Removable RAM
  9. All legacy VESA video modes (would be cool if they were accelerated)
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 20:57:23 JST Sexy Moon
  in reply to
  - cool_boy_mew
  - 𝕾𝖕𝖎𝖓𝖆𝖟𝖎𝖊
  @ic3l9 @coolboymew TempleOS support.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  𝕾𝖕𝖎𝖓𝖆𝖟𝖎𝖊 (ic3l9@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 20:57:24 JST 𝕾𝖕𝖎𝖓𝖆𝖟𝖎𝖊
  in reply to
  - cool_boy_mew
  @Moon @coolboymew >64-bit x86 CPU
  as in amd64? if so, why?
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  𝕾𝖕𝖎𝖓𝖆𝖟𝖎𝖊 (ic3l9@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 20:57:44 JST 𝕾𝖕𝖎𝖓𝖆𝖟𝖎𝖊
  in reply to
  
  @Moon would also be interesting if one could build it around something like this, maybe a similar board but with io oriented towards retro gaming
  
  https://wiki.sipeed.com/hardware/en/tang/Tang-Nano-9K/Nano-9K.html
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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    Tang Nano 9K - Sipeed Wiki
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  cool_boy_mew (coolboymew@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 20:59:12 JST cool_boy_mew
  in reply to
  - 𝕾𝖕𝖎𝖓𝖆𝖟𝖎𝖊
  @ic3l9 @Moon wouldn't that kill 16-bits apps?
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 20:59:12 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
  in reply to
  - cool_boy_mew
  - 𝕾𝖕𝖎𝖓𝖆𝖟𝖎𝖊
  @coolboymew @Moon @ic3l9 no if you use 86box/dosbox/etc
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 21:00:41 JST Sexy Moon
  in reply to
  @hj @coolboymew @ic3l9 i have two separate things I'd like to accomplish:
  
  1. can play DOS games and has an ISA slot for legacy or Orpheus 2 sound adapter
  2. Guaranteed to run TempleOS
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 21:01:42 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
  in reply to
  - cool_boy_mew
  - 𝕾𝖕𝖎𝖓𝖆𝖟𝖎𝖊
  @Moon @coolboymew @ic3l9 you need two separate computers then.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  cool_boy_mew (coolboymew@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 21:02:23 JST cool_boy_mew
  in reply to
  - narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
  - 𝕾𝖕𝖎𝖓𝖆𝖟𝖎𝖊
  @hj @Moon @ic3l9 would that even work on win 98 level of hardware in the first place
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 21:02:23 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
  in reply to
  - cool_boy_mew
  - 𝕾𝖕𝖎𝖓𝖆𝖟𝖎𝖊
  @coolboymew @Moon @ic3l9 i don't think there's a win98 compatible 64 bit processor at all. But you can use 86box to run win98, i sure do.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  :segasaturn: (takao@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 21:03:40 JST :segasaturn:
  in reply to
  - cool_boy_mew
  @Moon @coolboymew ISA motherboard and an amd64 CPU might be an issue but there is a possibility you could find an „industrial” motherboard supporting some sort of a CPU like that. Prepare to pay premium though.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
  
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  Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 21:03:40 JST Sexy Moon
  in reply to
  - cool_boy_mew
  - :segasaturn:
  @takao @coolboymew I found one board for about 200 dollars that does this but it doesn't have PS/2 connectors which is a problem. Otherwise it would seem to work.
  
  I am figuring it would be based on an industrial design.z
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 21:04:09 JST Sexy Moon
  in reply to
  @hj @coolboymew @ic3l9 yeah possibly
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  cool_boy_mew (coolboymew@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 21:04:44 JST cool_boy_mew
  in reply to
  
  @Moon one that would have the capabilities of an early 2000 computer (with a good graphic card of the era, is that even possible?) Would be the best of all worlds I think, as it could also support DOS stuff nicely if installed with 95 or 98. OS7-9 etc.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  ?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 21:04:44 JST ?? Humpleupagus ??
  in reply to
  - cool_boy_mew
  I have an old dell power edge 2600 that the former owner of my office building left behind. I'm pretty sure it's x86.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 21:05:32 JST Sexy Moon
  in reply to
  - cool_boy_mew
  - coldacid on 🔥
  @coldacid @coolboymew because there are too many options so it's better to just let people bring their own.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  coldacid on 🔥 (coldacid@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 21:05:33 JST coldacid on 🔥
  in reply to
  - cool_boy_mew
  @Moon @coolboymew if you're going as far as having a custom board made, why not have GUS and AWE64 right on the board? Don't forget game port too, put that right on the board even if audio chipsets aren't on it.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 21:06:44 JST Sexy Moon
  in reply to
  - cool_boy_mew
  - :segasaturn:
  @coolboymew @takao I just spent a while trying to find that out and it seems like no
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  cool_boy_mew (coolboymew@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 21:06:45 JST cool_boy_mew
  in reply to
  - :segasaturn:
  @Moon @takao can't you just add those connectors? I imagine boards for these doesn't quite exist anymore
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 21:09:31 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
  in reply to
  - cool_boy_mew
  @Moon @coolboymew
  
  1. why? apart from being able to use shitty old periphery
  2. just use an USB-to-serial adapter
  3. why?
  4. bioses of the era are all weird, they are the reason uefi exists, i don't think you can use coreboot on extremely old hardware.
  5. ide-to-sata might work but old CD-ROMs can be very wonky.
  6. i think it will be much easier to use CF as that is already IDE.
  7. lol, lmao even
  8. yeah that would be nice, but then some older machines had ram cards instead of memory sticks...
  9. that'd be pretty nice
  
  my requirements are much simpler
  
  1. any easy-to-maintain solution, i.e. FPGA or Emulation. Real hardware only for periphery that really matters and more or less available, i.e. OPL3 chips. I don't want to deal with disintegrated belts and dead lasers.
  2. compatibility with both VGA and HDMI/DP. VGA to connect real CRT monitor, digital as a fallback if either crt or digital-to-analog component breaks.
  3. compatibility with modern storage and input methods, while emulating rw times and possibly noise.
  
  So far 86Box is rather sufficient but i haven't really tried it with games and real CRT yet.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 21:10:02 JST Sexy Moon
  in reply to
  - cool_boy_mew
  - coldacid on 🔥
  @coldacid @coolboymew http://pcmidi.eu/orpheus2LT.html
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
  Attachments
  1. Domain not in remote thumbnail source whitelist: pcmidi.eu
    
    Orpheus 2LT Homepage *WIP*
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  coldacid on 🔥 (coldacid@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 21:10:03 JST coldacid on 🔥
  in reply to
  - cool_boy_mew
  @Moon @coolboymew sure but pretty much everything was developed with the Sound Blaster or Gravis UltraSound in mind for audio, so building those right into the board means that the majority don't even need to look for anything else
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 21:11:16 JST Sexy Moon
  in reply to
  - cool_boy_mew
  - narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
  @hj @coolboymew the weird requirements are for templeos.
  
  it may be cheaper just to pay someone to implement just enough USB to make keyboard-mouse work in TempleOS
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 21:11:45 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
  in reply to
  - cool_boy_mew
  - 𝕾𝖕𝖎𝖓𝖆𝖟𝖎𝖊
  @Moon @coolboymew @ic3l9 PC compatibility is really all over the place, just remember all the moments that LGR and Ross Scott had with "it didn't work on my (one machine/OS) so I used my (other machine/OS)"
  
  I mean it is what it is, and it's the reason I only played system shock much much later in my life than around its original release - it just crashed 3 seconds into the game on my machine at the time
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 21:12:46 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
  in reply to
  - cool_boy_mew
  @Moon @coolboymew what's wrong with using emulation? I.e. the 86box that i can't stop shilling?
  
  I mean it might be just me but i really enjoyed getting drunk and installing a w98 with my dad on it
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 21:13:15 JST Sexy Moon
  in reply to
  - cool_boy_mew
  - narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
  @hj @coolboymew wanna use an Orpheus II sound card with it
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  𝕾𝖕𝖎𝖓𝖆𝖟𝖎𝖊 (ic3l9@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 21:15:37 JST 𝕾𝖕𝖎𝖓𝖆𝖟𝖎𝖊
  in reply to
  - cool_boy_mew
  - narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
  @Moon @hj @coolboymew what about some sort of card-slot-only adapter where you can then forward data from and to the original card from an emulator
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 21:15:37 JST Sexy Moon
  in reply to
  @ic3l9 @coolboymew @hj possibly but in the past those devices were very expensive
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 21:16:43 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
  in reply to
  - cool_boy_mew
  @Moon @coolboymew i would rather search for solutions to get same results on modern hardware, i.e. https://github.com/SudoMaker/RetroWave or just emulating the soundcards. On top of that stuff like roland is probably easier to emulate if you have the soundbanks.
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
  Attachments
  1. Domain not in remote thumbnail source whitelist: opengraph.githubassets.com
    
    GitHub - SudoMaker/RetroWave: Authentic sounds from vintage sound chips, on modern hardware!
    
    Authentic sounds from vintage sound chips, on modern hardware! - GitHub - SudoMaker/RetroWave: Authentic sounds from vintage sound chips, on modern hardware!
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  :segasaturn: (takao@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 21:17:42 JST :segasaturn:
  in reply to
  - cool_boy_mew
  - coldacid on 🔥
  @Moon @coldacid @coolboymew kek, I still have three OPL3-SAx soundcards I bought mint dirt cheap when one of the small PC parts stores in my area shut down a long time ago. Only one of those I use in my K6 box.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
  
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  Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 21:18:09 JST Sexy Moon
  in reply to
  @takao @coldacid @coolboymew I have a super old laptop with a real OPL-3 in it that is powerful enough to run adlib-tracker II
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  condret :verified: :ancom: (condret@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 21:19:18 JST condret :verified: :ancom:
  in reply to
  @hj @Moon @coolboymew @ic3l9 i'm sure they exist, but win 98 won't switch to 64 bit mode
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 21:19:18 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
  in reply to
  @condret @Moon @coolboymew @ic3l9 it doesn't even have 32 bit mode...
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 21:23:05 JST Sexy Moon
  in reply to
  - cool_boy_mew
  - condret :verified: :ancom:
  @condret @coolboymew to plug in an ISA sound card
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  condret :verified: :ancom: (condret@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 21:23:06 JST condret :verified: :ancom:
  in reply to
  - cool_boy_mew
  @Moon @coolboymew i may have a motherboard, except that it doesn't have an sdcard adapter that is exposed as IDE. but why do you need that?
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 21:24:53 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
  in reply to
  @Kirino @Moon @coolboymew @ic3l9 it is a VM iirc but still a thing - game didn't work on win95 VM so he had to switch to win98 VM. Hell, when I mess around with 86box I often have to adjust emulated hardware because sometimes some stuff just doesn't work on some configurations for some reason, and given the circumstances and nature of this thing, I don't really want to find out why it doesn't.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Kirino Kousaka (kirino@seal.cafe)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 21:24:54 JST Kirino Kousaka
  in reply to
  Don’t know if Ross has another PC, I think he just gets really into the guts of the OS, VM and Software he’s working with. I know at least one occasion he fixed the resolution with a hex editor.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 21:26:35 JST Sexy Moon
  in reply to
  - cool_boy_mew
  - condret :verified: :ancom:
  @condret @coolboymew the sdcard thing is basically so IDE is on there for OS support but don't have to use an old shitty IDE drive.
  
  if the plug is just on there, then there is an adapter you can get to just plug in a CF card (I misspoke, it's a CF adapter not SD)
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  condret :verified: :ancom: (condret@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 21:27:01 JST condret :verified: :ancom:
  in reply to
  @hj @Moon @coolboymew @ic3l9 if it boots from legacy bios it has 16 bit mode, and likely a 32 bit mode
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
  
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  Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 21:27:01 JST Sexy Moon
  in reply to
  @condret @hj @coolboymew @ic3l9 all consumer intel boxes including EFI ones start in 16 bit mode as far as I know
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
  
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  Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 21:27:21 JST Sexy Moon
  in reply to
  - cool_boy_mew
  - condret :verified: :ancom:
  @condret @coolboymew no, read my second reply, I misunderstood your question at first
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  condret :verified: :ancom: (condret@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 21:27:22 JST condret :verified: :ancom:
  in reply to
  - cool_boy_mew
  @Moon @coolboymew this is why you need an sdcard adapter via ide?
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 21:34:13 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
  in reply to
  @Moon @condret @coolboymew @ic3l9 x86_64 architecture does not have a 16bit mode
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  Kirino Kousaka (kirino@seal.cafe)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 21:41:31 JST Kirino Kousaka
  in reply to
  Ah misread sorry fren, just woke up and coming off of no sleep
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
  
  narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: likes this.
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  narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 21:43:09 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
  in reply to
  @condret @Moon @coolboymew @ic3l9 i'm assuming "legacy bios" is not the same as "CSM", as far as I know, 16bit mode was essentially dropped in x86_64 architecture, and only other """"major""" 64 bit architecture (itanium) didn't even have a 32 bit mode.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  condret :verified: :ancom: (condret@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 21:43:10 JST condret :verified: :ancom:
  in reply to
  @hj @Moon @coolboymew @ic3l9 legacy boot akways boots in 16 bit, the kernel or the bootloader switches into 32 or 64 bit mode by setting up a new gdt, loading it and far jumping/calling/returning into it*s newly defined 3264 bit code segment. if you boot with legacy bios you computer cpu must support 16 bit
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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  condret :verified: :ancom: (condret@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 21:50:29 JST condret :verified: :ancom:
  in reply to
  @hj @Moon @coolboymew @ic3l9 if csm means legacy bios compatible in other words it supports booting from MBR, it must boot into 16-bit mode. the mbr contains 16 bit code, that gets executed during the boot process
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
  
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  condret :verified: :ancom: (condret@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 22:05:31 JST condret :verified: :ancom:
  in reply to
  @hj @Moon @coolboymew @ic3l9 i'm aware that there are other platforms with 64 bit support, which do not boot into 16 bit mode, but x86-64 does unless you go for the efi crap https://wiki.osdev.org/System_Initialization_(x86)
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
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    System Initialization (x86) - OSDev Wiki
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  Phantasm (phnt@fluffytail.org)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 22:41:08 JST Phantasm
  in reply to
  @Moon @hj @condret @coolboymew @ic3l9 All x86-compatible start in real mode, if I'm not mistaken.
  
  In conversation about a year ago permalink
  
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  Sexy Moon (moon@shitposter.club)'s status on Thursday, 31-Aug-2023 22:42:11 JST Sexy Moon
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  @condret @hj @coolboymew @ic3l9 afaik even efi boots from real mode underneath
  
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