Aral Balkan
Hi there, if you don’t want me to hit you, please carry this sign that says “please don’t hit me” with you always. Otherwise, I can’t possibly be held responsible if I hit you. Because it’s in my nature to hit you. I can’t live without hitting people. It’s just who I am and what I do. Thank you for your understanding in this delicate matter.
Sincerely,
OpenAI.
Aral Balkan
@ramsey And what a wonderful place the web is today.
Ben Ramsey
@aral Arguably, opt-out search indexing helped the web become what it is today, but maybe it’s time to make these things opt-in, and granularly so. i.e., I opt-in to allowing indexing for the purpose of search but not for the purpose of LLMs. I’m not sure how that would work in practice. Technically speaking, it would be easy, but it all depends on everyone playing by the rules.
Ray Of Sunlight
@aral the fuck is this? 😀
Aral Balkan
@Ray_Of_Sunlight “Add us to the robots.txt on your site if you don’t want us to train our AI on it.”
Aral Balkan
@unhook2048 (a) the web is basically synonymous with surveillance capitalism today so “model that has worked seemingly well” is rather subjective.
(b) The solution is glaringly obvious: make it opt in.
(Oh, will no one opt in if you make it opt in? Then maybe the thing you’re making shouldn’t exist in the first place.)
UnHooked
@aral I'm genuinely curious what you perceive the solution to this is? They modelled it after an already in place model that has worked seemingly well. I'd postulate that if companies took web presence and other technical matters more seriously by hiring and paying people better, this wouldn't be a problem or even a conversation.
Aral Balkan
@pixelcode @tripleo @ramsey @glitzersachen Sure, let’s limit it for everyone, not just individuals and I’m all in. The moment I can take whatever I want from a trillion-dollar corporation and do whatever I want with it, I’m happy with them doing the same (it still won’t be equal because they still have a trillion dollars to do what they want with it whereas I’m scraping together rent every month but, hey!)
Pixelcode 🇺🇦
@tripleo @ramsey @glitzersachen @aral When arguing that any possible interaction is (and should be) a copyright violation, you should consider:
Websites could force browsers not to allow ad blockers, because reading text and altering images would be a copyright violation. Scientists would need to pay publishers for citations. Criticising politicians' speeches would be illegal without explicit permission.
You probably don't want to hear it, but copyright law should be limited, not extended.
tripleo
Maybe. The search engine is the derived work. It was always so useful that nobody said anything.
Ben Ramsey
@glitzersachen @aral I know this isn’t a popular opinion, but I think indexing technically violates copyright, too.
Glitzersachen.de
@ramsey @aral
Actually the problem (with so called "AI") is not indexing, but creating a derived work --- the model --- and thus violating copyright.
Aral Balkan
@pixelcode @tripleo @ramsey @glitzersachen (As it stands it’s copyright for them but not for us.)
Aral Balkan
@pixelcode @tripleo @ramsey @glitzersachen Take a look around… No law applies to everyone equally.
Pixelcode 🇺🇦
@aral @tripleo @ramsey @glitzersachen A law that doesn't apply to everyone equally wouldn't be constitutional ;)
Aral Balkan
@bigMouthCommie Bit of a dick, are we?
👋 😘
HACKthePRISONS
@aral
what do you think robots.txt is?
and copying isn't the moral equivalent of battery.
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