Terence Eden
I saw so many people with folding phones today that it has given me total tech envy.
My OnePlus 5T is approaching 6 years old. Has a replacement battery and flashed with Lineage in order to get modern features.
I'm fully aboard the Reduce, Reuse, Recycle train. So I'll wait until it gives up the ghost and then buy a 2nd hand fold.
Looks like only the Pixel has 3rd party ROMs. So that's another good excuse to wait.
But I *want* a new toy!
novatorine 🏴🏳️⚧️
@wonka @FullOnElectric @nwp @Edent @pluralistic the problem with their phone is that they are massively insecure and have been for several years while lying about it and don't seem interested in fixing it. I understand security isn't a main concern for most people but I would be aware of that
Wilfried Klaebe
@FullOnElectric something like the Fairphone series? Although they become obsolete too, it's over a much much longer timeframe.
@nwp @Edent @pluralistic
John Stonier
@nwp @Edent
After 6 years, my Blackberry Key2 is finally nearing an end. Prolonged camera use causes overheating shut down and lack of updates past Android 8.nnnn is now affecting some functionality.
With today’s state of @pluralistic “enshitification” I’m happy to have fewer apps and stay out of tech databases everywhere.
So what’s the masto equivalent phone hardware to purchase today? Do we have to be beholden to perpetual planned obsolescence?
Nick Phillips
@Edent Yeah, I get that. I just wasn't clear exactly what you were trying to achieve. Cheapest over time will probably be the A14 as I mentioned in other message. Hardly anybody else guaranteed (or even discussed) update lifetime when I was looking. And that comes out to ~35 quid a year.
Terence Eden
@nwp no. I'm talking about amortised cost of ownership.
Having a £600 phone last 6 years is the equivalent of buying a new phone every year for £100.
(Or a phone every 2 years for £200 etc).
Terence Eden
@nwp let me know if you can find a new 5G device for £100. I can't.
Nick Phillips
@Edent Are you that rough on them that they'll only last a year?
Nick Phillips
@Edent Can't get Samsung A series with 5G? My A73 cost equivalent of ~400GBP IIRC, when it first came out. I choose based on lifetime of guaranteed security updates first, then other features...
Terence Eden
Some price noodling on phones.
In 2017, I paid £470 for a new OnePlus 5T - that's about £600 today adjusted for inflation.
The amortised cost is about £80 per year. Or about £100 today.
Would I buy a new / refurbished phone every year for £100? No 5G models at that price. Would it be a series of compromises each year?
I *could* buy a £600 folding phone. But am I confident it'd last half a decade of constant use?
novatorine 🏴🏳️⚧️
@FullOnElectric @nwp @Edent @pluralistic I personally use a pixel 6 with graphineOS, but that isn't really a way around planned obsolescence or anything sadly. What I will say is stay away from the purism phone, it's a massive scam.
novatorine 🏴🏳️⚧️
@GreenSloth @wonka @FullOnElectric @nwp @Edent @pluralistic basically in modern Android phones there is a public key that's flashed into the secure store on the processor that's used as a "root of trust" that basically begins the chain of checks (called verified boot) that android runs to make sure that whatever operating system you're booting hasn't been corrupted by malware or compromised or switched out on you without your consent. The idea is that only the manufacturer or the creator of the original OS you're booting has the private key they can use to sign the OS so that it will satisfy that root of trust (it also does a checksum to prevent modifications). (In the Google Pixel line, you can also flash a user-set root of trust as well if you want to boot your own operating system, so that it can verify that whatever operating system you're booting is the one that you installed and wipe the phone's storage so attackers can't get access if someone tries to switch the user-set root of trust. This basically gives you the same level of security with custom ROMs that you get from manufacturer-provided ROMs, because you can re lock the bootloader, instead if leaving your phone totally and completely open to attacks once you unlock the bootloader to install LineageOS or whatever. This is why GraphineOS only supports Pixels).
The problem is, Fairphone ships their phones with Google's example developer key still flashed as the hardware (non-user-changeable) root of trust! So anyone could grab the google developer example private key, sign their malware or modified OS version with it, install it on your phone, and you'd never notice. Various viruses and malware can do this to your phone for instance, modifying the OS. It also leaves you open to evil maid attacks.
This flaw has been known for years and is true of all their phones but they've done nothing to fix it, and sadly there's nothing you as a user can do either.
The other thing is that they just completely lie about how long their hardware is supported for. They say 5 years iirc, but you actually only get firmware updates from the manufacturer for like half that because they use old SoCs and the manufacturer stops supporting them, meaning that for most of your phone's lifetime you're actually not getting security critical firmware updates.
Jonathan Powell
@anarchopunk_girl @wonka @FullOnElectric @nwp @Edent @pluralistic As a naïve Fairphone user, what is the vulnerability and what can I do about it?
Jeffrey P Burdick
@anarchopunk_girl @GreenSloth @wonka @FullOnElectric @nwp @Edent @pluralistic
I couldn't find anything related to your key0 claims. Can you provide a source?
The last point about firmware support is demonstrably not true. Fairphone, and the open source Android community, did a lot of work to support the Fairphone 2, and it's Qualcom 801 SoC up to Android 10. This is well documented. They also continued bug fixes and patches for the Fairphone 2 through March 2023.
novatorine 🏴🏳️⚧️
@burdickjp @GreenSloth @wonka @FullOnElectric @nwp @Edent @pluralistic https://forum.fairphone.com/t/bootloader-avb-keys-used-in-roms-for-fairphone-3-4/83448/3
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