Mastodon Migration
OK, seen about a dozen posts today that start with:
"When #Threads federates with the fediverse..."
They go on to imagine some wonderful or awful scenario where the floodgates are open and #Threads becomes another #ActivityPub app like #CalcKey or #Plemora.
Maybe.... but what you are envisioning is really very unlikely. Threads is entirely algorithm driven. How's that going to work? Plus they have no interest in letting their captured users escape.
Be careful with these assumptions.
Mastodon Migration
Just saying, this smells like another vaporwear marketing strategy. The beauty of selling poorly defined future capabilities is that everyone imagines they will be exactly what they most desire (or fear), and then build expectations and plan accordingly.
It could be some very limited window into the fediverse. Caution not to get too far out over our skis here until we know more about the actual capability.
Mastodon Migration
@lauren Sure, be prepared. But don't place all your bets on some sort of full federation. Actually, what they may do could even be a limited one way thing. Or, they might only "federate" with accounts that sign up for their draconian permissions and data/content license. We don't know.
Lauren Weinstein
@mastodonmigration These are the kinds of issues that are best gamed out well in advance to cover the various contingencies. Not doing so risks being trapped in a corner when events ultimately play out.
Mastodon Migration
@darnell Very aware of what they have said. And there are ways to meet the letter of those statements that come far short of the full federation that people may be assuming. Just saying be cautious imagining what precise form this "federation with the fediverse" is going to take.
Darnell Clayton :verified:
@mastodonmigration You are speculating here based upon unverified assumptions. #Meta has repeatedly stated that #Threads will support #ActivityPub, & even mention this repeatedly to the media (Meta even talks about the #Fediverse & mentions #Mastodon by name in press releases).
They also talked about account importing/exporting as well (which the soon to be renamed #Calckey currently supports). Only time will tell if they implement their declared intentions.
Mastodon Migration
@mbryson We will see. I know many people share your expectation that they won't have to join Threads, but will be able to follow people on Threads from within Mastodon. It might be the case, but be prepared to be disappointed.
M.Bryson
@mastodonmigration I'm literally expecting me being able to follow active accounts of those I followed on twitter previously who have shifted to threads but are not on an existing federated platform (primarily mastodon) and people are able to follow the little things I post or retoot on threads as a platform.
Basically I think we'll get a "meh" over the potential apocalyptic or utopian scenarios frequently presented upon the almighty threads opening their floodgates to the Fediverse at large.
Norman
@mastodonmigration @darnell Not sure why people should worry about broken or non-existent federation. The issue is the possibility the DO do it functionally and then basically have the #Fediverse as a tail to wag.
Mastodon Migration
@volkris Not trying to estimate the upside or downside. Just urging caution in assuming you know what they will implement. Plus, #Threads pawing through content across the #Fediverse and applying their algorithms to it does not seem like a simple matter either technically or #DataPrivacy wise at all. These are the kinds of details where it is best not to make assumptions.
volkris
Realize that there is absolutely nothing contradictory about algorithms in #Fediverse platforms. Effectively that just comes down to a UI tweak, and any client or interface is perfectly free to implement whatever algorithm it wants.
Heck, keep in mind that newest first is itself an algorithm, although a quite simple one.
Further, one of the huge criticisms I have of #ActivityPub is exactly that it is so instance-focused instead of user-focused so that it does not really help people escape. #Threads would really be a good fit for that philosophy.
So #Meta would use federation to bring a bunch of content from us to its users, while offering to its users the chance to be heard by all of us, at least in theory. That’s good for the company. That’s good marketing for them.
I think you overestimate the downsides of Meta turning on federation.
Mastodon Migration
@darnell Again, know what they have said, and precisely how "embrace the #Fediverse" and "federate with apps like #Mastodon," actually works might hold some surprises, if you are assuming something like the way mainstream ActivityPub apps work. It could be much more of a bridge with some sort of conditions.
Darnell Clayton :verified:
@mastodonmigration #Meta has plainly stated that #Threads will embrace the #Fediverse & federate with apps like #Mastodon. I understand being cautious about Meta (especially after the issues #Facebook has created), but being super paranoid about clear, concise statements is a bit much.
Mastodon Migration
@dalias @darnell Very possibly. Or it could be a deliberate ploy from the start. We just don't know.
Rich Felker
@darnell @mastodonmigration My take: Facebook's product and marketing ppl are making promises their legal departments won't let them keep.
Rich Felker
@darnell @mastodonmigration When they say "apps like Mastodon", that's not clear at all because Mastodon isn't an "app" and client apps aren't what federate, instances are. Do they mean they'll federate with instances like mastodon.social that sign sketchy contracts with them? Or open federation with anything speaking AP that's not a moderation problem? Even if they have no license to the posts of users on that instance? Even if instance's users are or may be in GDPR jurisdiction?
Mastodon Migration
Mastodon Migration
@supergrobi @evan Indeed, it all sounds very "interoperable". Let's see what they actually do.
Supergrobi
@mastodonmigration
Marking their words:
"the open, interoperable social networks that we believe can shape the future of the internet.
[..]
We believe this decentralized approach, similar to the protocols governing email and the web itself, will play an important role in the future of online platforms."
Sounds good, "shape the future of the internet" in particular, I hope you feel recognised @evan :-)
Evan Prodromou
@mastodonmigration I think it's important to read this announcement from Meta themselves. They've made some pretty bold commitments.
https://about.fb.com/news/2023/07/introducing-threads-new-app-text-sharing/
Mastodon Migration
@Nour @darnell The statements do seem clear and concise, but may not actually be as clear and concise as they seem. That is why it is not a good idea to make too many assumptions about what they will actually implement. With this company it may not be wise to take them "at face value."
Nour Agha :popos:
@darnell @mastodonmigration They've made it clear they'll be actually joining the fediverse (which includes the full package like account migration), and not just a 'bridge' since account migration would not be possible if their intent was only a bridge. I think it's best if we take their clear and concise statements at face value rather than speculate (which in turn causes unnecessary FUD), until proven otherwise.
Mastodon Migration
@travis You might be right. Guess we will find out. Definitely believe in the old axiom: "Watch what they do, not what they say." Particularly with this bunch.
Travis
@mastodonmigration The more I think about it and see what's going on with Threads, the more I think they used the Fediverse and Mastodon as a false advertisement to boost numbers and to try and poach from Mastodon. I'll believe Facebook/Meta that Threads is part of the Fediverse if they'd turn it on already. Until then, it's false advertising.
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