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1. Embed this notice
   silverpill (silverpill@mitra.social)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Jul-2023 21:28:13 JST silverpill

   in reply to

   • Strypey
   • Blort™ 🐀Ⓥ🥋☣️
   • ShadSterling
   • smallcircles (Humanity Now 🕊)
   • Hrefna (DHC)

   @strypey @ShadSterling @smallcircles @hrefna @Blort Developers could list supported FEPs in FEDERATION.md file.

   • Embed this notice
     Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Jul-2023 21:28:16 JST Strypey

     in reply to

     • Blort™ 🐀Ⓥ🥋☣️
     • ShadSterling
     • smallcircles (Humanity Now 🕊)
     • Hrefna (DHC)

     @hrefna
     > there's not even a registry or a good way of saying "I am using these extensions"

     I may be late to the party in mentioning this, but as of fairly recently there is the FEP process for standardizing extensions, which is a step in this direction. Sounds like we need an FEP for signalling which FEPs a server supports, maybe someone has already drafted one?

     https://codeberg.org/fediverse/fep

     @ShadSterling @smallcircles @Blort

     #fediverse #FEP

   • Embed this notice
     Hrefna (DHC) (hrefna@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Jul-2023 21:28:17 JST Hrefna (DHC)

     in reply to

     • Blort™ 🐀Ⓥ🥋☣️
     • ShadSterling
     • smallcircles (Humanity Now 🕊)

     @ShadSterling

     I've spoken before about how #ActivityPub is particularly weak to this problem because it's not really a protocol in and of itself but more of pattern for building a family of protocols.

     It's trivial to add extensions that others may not be able to parse, and there's not even a registry or a good way of saying "I am using these extensions," so you get instead this situation where "are these compatible? glhf!"

     @smallcircles @Blort

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     Hrefna (DHC) (hrefna@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Jul-2023 21:28:18 JST Hrefna (DHC)

     in reply to

     • Blort™ 🐀Ⓥ🥋☣️
     • ShadSterling
     • smallcircles (Humanity Now 🕊)

     @ShadSterling

     Really I suspect the reverse: it will make it easier for Facebook to do the "extend" portion of "embrace extend extinguish."

     The "extinguish" phase only comes after people have started swapping to their custom extensions and even their own custom protocols. It creates a situation where "meta is the center" and that is not healthy for the rest of the fediverse.

     @smallcircles @Blort

   • Embed this notice
     ShadSterling (shadsterling@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Jul-2023 21:28:19 JST ShadSterling

     in reply to

     • Blort™ 🐀Ⓥ🥋☣️
     • smallcircles (Humanity Now 🕊)
     • Hrefna (DHC)

     @smallcircles @Blort @hrefna if lots of companies join the fediverse to compete or connect with Facebook, won’t that make it harder for Facebook to extinguish other providers?

   • Embed this notice
     smallcircles (Humanity Now 🕊) (smallcircles@social.coop)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Jul-2023 21:28:20 JST smallcircles (Humanity Now 🕊)

     in reply to

     • Blort™ 🐀Ⓥ🥋☣️
     • Hrefna (DHC)

     @Blort @hrefna

     Btw, an interesting aspect to #Meta's entry that I haven't yet seen mentioned..

     It's not just Meta to worry about. When they launch and the press release proudly mentions their 'open standards' approach, then this will be trigger for an unprecedented influx of businesses adding #ActivityPub support and joining the #Fediverse.

     Meta will basically indicate to the market: this technology ecosystem is "good to go", economically viable and we're in it. #Metaverse-like hype ensues.

   • Embed this notice
     smallcircles (Humanity Now 🕊) (smallcircles@social.coop)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Jul-2023 21:28:21 JST smallcircles (Humanity Now 🕊)

     in reply to

     • Blort™ 🐀Ⓥ🥋☣️
     • Hrefna (DHC)

     @Blort @hrefna

     Yes, the solution is obvious. It is also unfortunately theoretical. In practice no matter how often you say we should collectively evolve the specs, the dynamics in grassroots ecosystem is that everyone moves individualistically and by doing so implicitly chooses to be weak. Everything fragmented, no cohesion, little synergy.

     The advantage that companies have is that they can pay people to be dilligent and dedicate to the boring chores, stick to a task and complete it.

   • Embed this notice
     Blort™ 🐀Ⓥ🥋☣️ (blort@social.tchncs.de)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Jul-2023 21:28:22 JST Blort™ 🐀Ⓥ🥋☣️

     in reply to

     • Hrefna (DHC)

     @hrefna Implementing the how the most desired #ActivityPub features function (technically and in the #UX) before #GAFAM decides for us, will protect us more than the whole #Faceblock debate, regardless whether our instances decide to #DefederateMeta or not.

     Just imagine if it's possible to easily move posts from Mastodon.social to Facebook, but not the reverse? Or if people deciding what instance to use are told they can only use #Meta to have their messages be secure and *cough* private? 🤢 🤮

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     Hrefna (DHC) (hrefna@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Jul-2023 21:28:23 JST Hrefna (DHC)

     in reply to

     Meta is looking to implement post importing. That's been a feature request since forever (see https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/177 and https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/12423 ).

     Secure messaging is another example.

     These are things that if meta implements them and does even a halfway decent job then #meta controls the standard.

     Want to prevent that?

     Get there first or at least have a strong offering on how to do these things out of the gate. Let _us_ as a community control the standards that we use.

   • Embed this notice
     Hrefna (DHC) (hrefna@hachyderm.io)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Jul-2023 21:28:24 JST Hrefna (DHC)

     Actually effective strategies against #Meta to prevent an #EmbraceExtendExtinguish are difficult, but they start from asking "what will actually help here."

     I maintain that preemptive #DefederateMeta is ineffective for this and that defederating from those who won't defederate from meta does more harm than good.

     But what will help is thinking about the roadmap and getting there first. What will help is building a robust and thriving community around #ActivityPub and other fediverse protocols.