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   LostInCalifornia (lostincalifornia@spinster.xyz)'s status on Monday, 03-Jul-2023 14:41:18 JST LostInCalifornia

   “… demonstrates that socially conservative societies opt to ‘other’ homosexuality rather than tolerate it”

   https://onthewomanquestion.com/2021/04/08/third-gender-categories-homosexuality-and-transgender-identity/

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     ARoseByMyName (somalirose@spinster.xyz)'s status on Monday, 03-Jul-2023 14:41:16 JST ARoseByMyName

     in reply to

     • RadLola
     @LostInCalifornia @RadLola I almost thought the same. That men must hate other men. But I wonder now, if they actually distance themselves so much from other men out of sheer narcissism. The dangerous opposite of self hatred. Any man who strays from my definition of men must be something else. "Man" is the most important thing on earth. If you do not act the way I deem men should act, you are not one of us. You are less than the optimal type of person, a man. And they relate men who sleep with other men to women. And they fucking hate women more than anything else. They believe having sex with women is a way to punish them. They consider the act, disgusting. Or they wouldn't say a woman has been defiled when a man had intercourse with her. Therefore, when men take the position women are usually in during sex, they are horrified. Only women should be demeaned like that.
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     LostInCalifornia (lostincalifornia@spinster.xyz)'s status on Monday, 03-Jul-2023 14:41:17 JST LostInCalifornia

     in reply to

     • RadLola
     • ARoseByMyName

     @SomaliRose @RadLola Men use “misogyny” to escape their own responsibility tho. Misogyny is at the bottom of homophobia, ie “he’s a pansy / pussy” = he’s effeminate.

     Problem is that they need to expand their definition of “manliness” to accept that effeminate men are still men. They’re policing masculinity, using their low opinion of femininity as an avoidance tool.

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     RadLola (radlola@spinster.xyz)'s status on Monday, 03-Jul-2023 14:41:17 JST RadLola

     in reply to

     • ARoseByMyName
     @LostInCalifornia @SomaliRose "Misogyny is at the bottom of homophobia, ie “he’s a pansy / pussy” = he’s effeminate."
     
     I think that nowadays yes, but then, the discrimination isnt against homosexuality itself, but against effeminacy, especially in males. A masculine man that engages in homosexual behavior wouldnt be discriminated against under this basis.
     
     I think that the problem lies when people see/categorize these men as a third thing instead of as a subtype of a men, which is what they are
     
     Men sometimes call all males they dislike as "non-man". For instance there are times when they claim a pedophile, a rapist, etc isn't a "man" but "something else" in order to disassociate themselves from them and then they categorize society as being composed by "men" (meaning masculine men who behave in certain ways) and non-men (meaning everyone else). I think in ancient greece for instance, there were only men and "non-men" people. The non-men people were women, slaves, children, etc
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     LostInCalifornia (lostincalifornia@spinster.xyz)'s status on Monday, 03-Jul-2023 14:41:17 JST LostInCalifornia

     in reply to

     • RadLola
     • ARoseByMyName

     @RadLola @SomaliRose “Misogyny is at the bottom of homophobia, ie “he’s a pansy / pussy” = he’s effeminate.”

     I stated that as the current position I keep seeing. I disagree with it entirely. Insecure masculinity and policing of manliness is the reason homophobia towards men exists, and that’s the result self hating misandry.

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     RadLola (radlola@spinster.xyz)'s status on Monday, 03-Jul-2023 14:41:18 JST RadLola

     in reply to
     @LostInCalifornia "Of course, acknowledging the existence of homosexuality would shatter the illusion that the heterosexual pairing family is the only possible familial structure"
     
     Children can only be made through heterosexual sex. If a homosexual couple is raising children, then they are raising someone elses children.
     
     The third gender thing is more much related to misogyny than "homophobia" IMHO. Homosexual behavior is widespread in most societies that have "third" genders.
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     LostInCalifornia (lostincalifornia@spinster.xyz)'s status on Monday, 03-Jul-2023 14:41:18 JST LostInCalifornia

     in reply to

     • RadLola

     @RadLola Not just misogyny. Misandry. “3rd genders” exist largely because men refuse to accept men as men.

     Also, I always find it interesting that it’s 3rd gender, not men socially rejected as men are women.

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     RadLola (radlola@spinster.xyz)'s status on Monday, 03-Jul-2023 14:41:18 JST RadLola

     in reply to
     @LostInCalifornia I dont think misandry is a thing. I think third gender/trans gay men seek to disassociate themselves from other men as much as other men refuse to accept them as males and I dont think this is due to "homophobia" at all. I think that claiming it is is another attempt to divert us from recognizing it is actually rooted in misogyny
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     ARoseByMyName (somalirose@spinster.xyz)'s status on Monday, 03-Jul-2023 14:41:18 JST ARoseByMyName

     in reply to

     • RadLola
     @RadLola @LostInCalifornia I think once you've stripped down every facet of a shitty society and its shitty customs, you find misogyny. It is the basis of every shitty custom on earth, I think. Males design structures that are impossible to fit into and then demand everyone fit into them. Why we allowed them to design everything I don't know. But it's ended badly.
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     LostInCalifornia (lostincalifornia@spinster.xyz)'s status on Monday, 03-Jul-2023 15:08:47 JST LostInCalifornia

     in reply to

     • RadLola
     • ARoseByMyName

     @SomaliRose @RadLola “Less than the optimal person” = the misogyny cover. Effeminate men are “not men”, so they are women’s responsibility.

     That policing is directed at men. If you assign an entirely male exercise as “misogyny”, you’re halfway to accepting that effeminate men are “not men”, ergo women. And you’ve let men off the hook for their own attitudes about themselves.

     I don’t know if I’d call it “hatred”. I would call it fear. Homophobia comes from the fear men feel that they aren’t “manly enough.”

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