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1. Embed this notice
   Cousin_Martha_Corey (cousin_isobel@spinster.xyz)'s status on Wednesday, 21-Jun-2023 11:17:00 JST Cousin_Martha_Corey

   • Chronic-Yonic :flag_lesbian:

   @Chronic-Yonic I do think he and other transgenderists have the start of a good point in that it doesn’t really make sense to suggest that it would be okay if the women’s category were open only to men who were so weak and untalented that they came in last all the time. To let the very worst male athletes take up space in women’s categories would still be an insult to women’s sports.

   • Embed this notice
     Chronic-Yonic :flag_lesbian: (chronic-yonic@spinster.xyz)'s status on Wednesday, 21-Jun-2023 11:16:58 JST Chronic-Yonic :flag_lesbian:

     in reply to

     • Flick ??
     • Chronic-Yonic :flag_lesbian:

     @Cousin_Isobel @Flick P.S.: I’m bowled over that a man recognizes that women have changed his point of view and convinced him in using correct language.

   • Embed this notice
     Cousin_Martha_Corey (cousin_isobel@spinster.xyz)'s status on Wednesday, 21-Jun-2023 11:16:58 JST Cousin_Martha_Corey

     in reply to

     • Flick ??
     • Chronic-Yonic :flag_lesbian:

     @Chronic-Yonic @Flick I’m about halfway through. I’m not sure I’ll make it through the full discussion of Islam and speech prohibitions, though it is upsetting and interesting.

     That is great that Brendan O’Neill stopped using “preferred” pronouns! See, they’re not all bad. 😁 a This is a high success rate for KJK, who seems also to have been the one who convinced Megyn Kelly. We’ll have to make note of her technique. I remember that she was very non-accusatory and gentle with Megyn Kelly, explaining her reasons for using accurate pronouns and adding that it would be wonderful if someone in Megyn’s position did the same.

     We just need a few more! Some people who use inaccurate pronouns are reachable. They just need to understand a bit better. They say they “don’t mind,” and we can show them that there are good reasons to mind.

   • Embed this notice
     Cousin_Martha_Corey (cousin_isobel@spinster.xyz)'s status on Wednesday, 21-Jun-2023 11:16:58 JST Cousin_Martha_Corey

     in reply to

     • Flick ??
     • Chronic-Yonic :flag_lesbian:

     @Chronic-Yonic @Flick P.S. The part of the interview that really hit me in the gut was Andrew Doyle’s claim that 10-15 years ago, everyone knew a tranny and didn’t mind using preferred pronouns.

     I didn’t. I didn’t know a tranny. I knew an academic douche who said something about being a zhe/zhir, but I assumed he was an isolated idiot. I thought this was all a tiny thing happening in isolated circles, away from the law or anything that would affect me.

     I need to make sure I’m not asleep for the next thing when it’s still small enough to stop.

     Seahorses are horses likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Cousin_Martha_Corey (cousin_isobel@spinster.xyz)'s status on Wednesday, 21-Jun-2023 11:16:59 JST Cousin_Martha_Corey

     in reply to

     • Flick ??
     • Chronic-Yonic :flag_lesbian:

     @Flick @Chronic-Yonic I think, for example, when we say that the fact that Lia Thomas won competitions is the reason he shouldn’t have been on the women’s swim team, it does suggest that. I don’t mean it’s not a valid part of the argument. Strength and other physical differences are the main reasons we have the two categories. However, I think we should be arguing against the inclusion of men in women’s sports more based on the category name. Performance differences may be the reason for the categories, but once they come to be called “women’s” and “men’s,” truth in labeling becomes the main issue. I also think we need to articulate why we don’t want a “women and crappy men” category more clearly, if such a category is being suggested. It’s not just that the crappy men might win.

   • Embed this notice
     Chronic-Yonic :flag_lesbian: (chronic-yonic@spinster.xyz)'s status on Wednesday, 21-Jun-2023 11:16:59 JST Chronic-Yonic :flag_lesbian:

     in reply to

     • Flick ??

     @Cousin_Isobel @Flick I think some will do shorthand in their arguments, mainly concentrate on one single aspect, but the fact remains, there are multiple reasons why this is plain wrong.

     Historically speaking, when it took so long for women’s sports to be taken seriously and some men come along and claim their place in those sports.

     Some lame male athletes figure they have a better chance at recognition if they self-ID into women’s sports.

     The biological aspect of male strength, stamina due to a bigger lung and heart capacity.

     The fairness ideal in sports.

     The dangers of serious injuries to female athletes caused by men.

     The loss of scholarships to girls and women who cannot afford higher education.

     Etc.

     I think all the reasons should be declined in the argument for being against male presence in women’s sports but people now, due to all sorts of reasons, have short attention spans, so we trim the reasons to the simplest possible number. No use throwing a wall of info to some people, they zone out.

   • Embed this notice
     Chronic-Yonic :flag_lesbian: (chronic-yonic@spinster.xyz)'s status on Wednesday, 21-Jun-2023 11:16:59 JST Chronic-Yonic :flag_lesbian:

     in reply to

     • Flick ??
     • Chronic-Yonic :flag_lesbian:

     @Cousin_Isobel @Flick This, btw, is an excellent interview, it’s global reasons why the trans movement is so bloody wrong: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUSoYN_e80o

   • Embed this notice
     Cousin_Martha_Corey (cousin_isobel@spinster.xyz)'s status on Wednesday, 21-Jun-2023 11:16:59 JST Cousin_Martha_Corey

     in reply to

     • Flick ??
     • Chronic-Yonic :flag_lesbian:

     @Chronic-Yonic @Flick Thanks! I’ll check it out.

   • Embed this notice
     Chronic-Yonic :flag_lesbian: (chronic-yonic@spinster.xyz)'s status on Wednesday, 21-Jun-2023 11:16:59 JST Chronic-Yonic :flag_lesbian:

     in reply to

     • Flick ??

     @Cousin_Isobel @Flick There is at least one ad tho during the video… 🙄

   • Embed this notice
     Flick ?? (flick@spinster.xyz)'s status on Wednesday, 21-Jun-2023 11:17:00 JST Flick ??

     in reply to

     • Chronic-Yonic :flag_lesbian:

     @Cousin_Isobel @Chronic-Yonic Is anyone seriously suggesting that?