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「Under Divine Flag」 (oceanredux@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 29-May-2023 13:36:28 JST 
「Under Divine Flag」
@Saber @CatLord @Gundog See, so how the fuck does that fucking sheriff get away with this shit without being stripped of his rank m8 wtf lol -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Monday, 29-May-2023 13:36:26 JST 
?? Humpleupagus ??
He's likely relying on precedents like the one below. It was in civil, but dealt with in personam jurisdiction for internet posts. Here the crux would seem to be whether the conduct was directed into Florida.
I think it's going to be difficult to argue that every post about a person in Florida is necessarily directed into Florida where the poster was in New Jersey and the site is hosted in California, especially where the subject of the post is a public official. Do my comments about DeSantis subject me to Florida Law? I don't think so.
I also question the long arm jurisdiction in a criminal context from a constitutional perspective. Land and boundaries matter. If they don't, a Texas sheriff could issue a warrant for Sheriff Chitwood's arrest for violation of Texas Civil Rights law because Sheriff Chitwood intended his conduct to chill speech in every state in the nation, including Texas.
https://law.justia.com/cases/new-jersey/supreme-court/2000/a-5-99-opn.html -
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「Under Divine Flag」 (oceanredux@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 29-May-2023 13:36:27 JST
「Under Divine Flag」
@PodunkPotato @Saber @CatLord @Gundog holy shit it does....wtf -
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PodunkPotato (podunkpotato@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Monday, 29-May-2023 13:36:28 JST 
PodunkPotato
His sheriff star has six points... -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Monday, 29-May-2023 14:22:23 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
I don't know if we can purely look to the content of the speech to determine whether it was directed into a state. I think whether speech is directed into a state should be content independent. I mean... if he said the same thing in a New Jersey bar or on a phone call with someone in California, would Florida have jurisdiction? No.
The way I look at it is like this: He sent a letter to California. Florida officials walked into California and looked at the letter. That's how the internet works. People in Florida requested data from a post directed, at best, into California. -
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Gundog (gundog@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 29-May-2023 14:22:24 JST 
Gundog
@Humpleupagus @OceanRedux @Saber @PodunkPotato @CatLord Thanks for that link, it's an interesting case. Generally the Supreme Court has clamped down hard on laws that are ambiguous as far as regulating speech goes, particularly on the internet. How the extradition is justified would relate to that.
But, I would argue that this goes beyond "Do comments made by Person X in State Y about Person A in State B place Person X in the jurisdiction of State B?" The answer is a resounding no, but this isn't comments generally, it is death threats *specifically*. The direction of the speech is to a Florida official, it's straightforwardly directed into Florida. What it will boil down to is credibility; even if death threats are prima facie illegal, the distance and degree of separation involved--as you point out--are going to invoke a limit. -
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「Under Divine Flag」 (oceanredux@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 29-May-2023 14:32:54 JST
「Under Divine Flag」
@Humpleupagus @Saber @PodunkPotato @CatLord @Gundog >I mean... if he said the same thing in a New Jersey bar or on a phone call with someone in California, would Florida have jurisdiction? No.
Ok wait so then the problem isnt jurisdiction, the problem is the fucking FED GLOWIES that allow this shit 2 happen, right? I read the rest of ur post and my question remains the same.
Its the glowies that permit this shit 2 happen. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Monday, 29-May-2023 14:32:54 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
For sure. The feds were involved and any judge could have stopped extradition for the reasons stated. But the purpose here is press coverage. I heard that Golden was released, but try finding that story. The arrest was publicized. His being acquitted or charges eventually being dropped will not be. But if he ends up pleading out, you'll hear all about it.
Personally, I hope Chitwood dies by choking on his own excrement. Fuck that guy. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Monday, 29-May-2023 14:48:37 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
Up until recently, states couldn't even collect sales tax from online retailers shipping into their states because "businesses shouldn't have to navigate the laws of 50 states." (Paraphrased)
I think that World Wide Volkswagen is relevant here, though civil. The question is whether he availed himself of the benefits of Florida law.
To put it another way, I'm not even sure we get to a 1A question. I think this is purely a 14th Amendment due process issue. Are citizens now subject to the laws of all 50 states merely by posting on internet forums respecting matters in those states?
https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/444/286/#:~:text=Wide%20Volkswagen%20Corp.-,v,%2C%20444%20U.S.%20286%20(1980)&text=Personal%20jurisdiction%20may%20be%20appropriate,conduct%20and%20connection%20with%20it. -
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Gundog (gundog@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 29-May-2023 14:48:38 JST
Gundog
@Humpleupagus @Saber @PodunkPotato @CatLord @OceanRedux The Supreme Court's entire 1A history for speech is context sensitivity, which granted led to throwing their hands up and leaving it to the states. The only rule they have adamantly maintained is that ambiguous laws cannot stand.
The problem here is that it's criminal law, not civil rights, so it's specific, but is bending the rules for extradition. Your analogy isn't wrong, but the context does matter, because the difference between a face-to-face threat and a threat posted online is that the former is credible because of immediate presence; the latter is less credible because of distance.
'Course this all raises the question of why not charge with conspiracy if the threat is credible, which may be said of red flag laws and is (imo) the most pointed criticism of those as well. -
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Gundog (gundog@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 29-May-2023 15:06:53 JST
Gundog
@Humpleupagus @Saber @PodunkPotato @CatLord @OceanRedux I think you've nailed it spot-on with that. It had not yet occurred to me but you're right, the 14th is a nonstarter, especially when most people would only avail themselves of the laws of the state they are living in (or passing through, e.g. safe passage laws concerning gun owners crossing state lines), since the protections of laws in other states are generally irrelevant. ?? Humpleupagus ?? likes this. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Monday, 29-May-2023 15:10:58 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
And without going into his 1A defense, which is a separate issue, I would add that the proper process should be for Sheriff Chitwood to make a report to federal authorities (because wires were used) or NJ authorities. If he was arrested on federal or NJ state charges, the 14A issue (or 5A for federal) dissappears competely. -
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?uper?nekFriend ? (supersnekfriend@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 29-May-2023 15:16:10 JST 
?uper?nekFriend ?
@Humpleupagus @Saber @PodunkPotato @CatLord @Gundog @OceanRedux Ever since the slow degradation from the Civil War onward and from the very 14th Amendment you mention, the states have become mere administration zones for the federal government. A legal trend in one region eventually grows into a monolithic law for virtually all. Sometimes that is good and in our favor like with the trend of Constitutional Carry, but majority of times it fucks Americans over.
The answer is, yes citizens will be subjected to this law against internet speech within a decade, because we are just the United State de facto under the de jure pretense of regional plurality. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Monday, 29-May-2023 15:16:10 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
I want to run for Sheriff then. The shannigans I could pull. 😏 -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Monday, 29-May-2023 15:19:16 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
> Girl in Alabama gets pregnant
> abortion is illegal in Alabama
> California poster say "I'll help her get an abortion."
> Boom.... warrant issued for making a death threat. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Monday, 29-May-2023 16:25:23 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
To sell the parts for meth. 🤷♂️ -
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Hunter S. Bloomfer (bloomfer@coolsite.win)'s status on Monday, 29-May-2023 16:25:24 JST 
Hunter S. Bloomfer
Uhh based, but why would anyone let their sister have an abortion if she carries your child? -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Monday, 29-May-2023 16:39:13 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
It's just tortillas, meat, cheese, beans, and tomatoes. 🤷♂️ -
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Hunter S. Bloomfer (bloomfer@coolsite.win)'s status on Monday, 29-May-2023 16:39:14 JST
Hunter S. Bloomfer
you mexicans make cook meth out of everything -
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PodunkPotato (podunkpotato@nicecrew.digital)'s status on Monday, 29-May-2023 17:25:03 JST
PodunkPotato
Don't give up. You only get what you give. -
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?? Humpleupagus ?? (humpleupagus@eveningzoo.club)'s status on Monday, 29-May-2023 17:25:03 JST
?? Humpleupagus ??
I gave my wife some dick once. My ass still hurts. 😭 -
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Jean_Philippe_Micheaux (jean_philippe_micheaux@poa.st)'s status on Monday, 29-May-2023 17:25:04 JST 
Jean_Philippe_Micheaux
@Humpleupagus @SuperSnekFriend @Saber @PodunkPotato @CatLord @Gundog @OceanRedux well if you win and need a good deputy I'm here.
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