myrmepropagandist
Pundits keep on being astonished that the former president repeats actions that are illegal, objectively harmful, inciting violence--- but I think the "logic" (such as it is) is that if it was not wrong then, then why should it be wrong now?
"I'll f-in do it again!"
Basically.
Repeating these actions and *again* not facing any justice serves to "prove" that is it permitted.
That is why the glacial pace and inaction of our justice system may well end this little experiment in democracy.
myrmepropagandist
I'm so over the "communism and fascism are equally bad"
The steel man argument for why communism is bad comes down to: in some implementations it can act to concentrate power. So one could argue this is inevitable. eg. what communism seeks to accomplish is good, but it just won't work*
Now why is fascism bad? Because what fascism *seeks to accomplish is obviously immoral* and cruel. Fascism "done right" is wicked. Fascism failed is wicked too. How is this even a question?
Jeremy Kahn
there's _plenty_ of interest in fascism here in the USA, though :(
myrmepropagandist
No one is interested in communism in the US. It's not even in the conversation.
mike805
@trochee @tofugolem @pleaseclap @futurebird @sphinx yeah that was Karl Marx who said that. He was pretty good at describing the faults of the present system. Not so good at proposing a solution. The Dems want a big centralized financial system with themselves at the top. They get private jets, everyone else gets an e-bike if he is good.
Communism is a strategy for turning everyone against each other. Previously it was about class, the current iteration is about identity groups.
Tofu Golem
@mike805 @trochee @pleaseclap @futurebird @sphinx
"The Dems want"
No. That's what the safe-space is telling you. The safe-space recently admitted in court (again) that they lie to you. The Democrats serve wealthy people and large corporations just like the Republicans, they're just a bit less blatant about it.
And you clearly do not understand what communism is, but given that you get your info from the safe-space, this is to be expected.
mike805
@tofugolem @trochee @pleaseclap @futurebird @sphinx the whole system serves the wealthy and corporations. The D and R serve the system.
Communism is direct ownership of the means of production by the state. Fascism is where the state controls the corporations but the corporations retain formal ownership of the means of production.
Both C and F treat humans as just a tool, part of the means of production, to be used by the people in charge. Both are evil.
Jeremy Kahn
@mike805 @tofugolem @pleaseclap @futurebird @sphinx
Are...
Are you aware of who first said "history repeats, first as tragedy, then as farce"?
A… peculiar choice of phrase to use in a rant about the commies
& how do you square criticizing the DNC as an agent of "financial cartel" with "the Dems are too Bolshevik"?
Oh oh oh I get it. When you say "financial cartel" (or "Bolshevik") do you just mean "Jews"?
Tofu Golem
@pleaseclap @futurebird @mike805 @sphinx
True, but at least the Democratic party is less fascist than Republicans. So there's that.
mike805
@tofugolem @pleaseclap @futurebird @sphinx yes they are less Fascist. That's the good news.
The bad news is they are a lot more Bolshevik. And not just Bernie. It seems like half their talking points come from the Communist Manifesto.
Sometimes I think we are watching the run-up to the Spanish Civil War, or perhaps the Kampfzeit, repeating as farce (the first time being tragedy!)
Does it really have to be a choice between Communism and Fascism?
Stanley Black-Decker
@futurebird @tofugolem @mike805 @sphinx
I just don't agree with that phrasing, because the DNC isn't at all maintaining "the entire democratic experiment". That's rhetoric - it's spin. The outcomes speak for themselves: the government's agenda isn't driven by voter representation - it's dictated by donor representation. The donors get what they want, the voters don't, and being connected to the party means you can act with impunity. It's not the DNC's mission to change that
Tofu Golem
@mike805 @sphinx @futurebird
Yes, yes. You’re trying to use the “but both sides” argument to defend the criminality of Republican presidents. We’ve heard this song before, and I already explained why the logic is completely flaccid.
But keep trying, little guy. Maybe if you repeat yourself often enough, you can turn bad logic into good logic, because that’s how truth works if you were raised in a household that didn’t teach you to value education.
myrmepropagandist
It would be wrong to put all of this on Republicans. I will give you that, but please don't make the rather lazy conclusion that there is no substantive difference between the results we see when each party has power.
It's easy to see both are sub-optimal but equally obvious they they are radically different and in one case there are signs that there is the desire to end the entire democratic experiment.
mike805
@sphinx @tofugolem @futurebird the so-called other side is not better. Clinton had a bunch of scandals including money from China. Al Gore contested an election and tried to do selective recounts, until the Supreme Court shot him down. And the D party was responsible for a really big insurrection in the 19th century. I could go on.
The parties do not represent competing moral principles. They represent competing collections of interests. They are just rival gangs.
Tofu Golem
Dear Mikey-poo,
So you're telling me that a string of Republican presidents didn’t break the law because you believe the conspiracy theories from the official Republican propaganda safe-space?
Buwahahahahahahaha!
You’re just adorable.
First, if your response to an accusation is to accuse someone else of something else, you just confessed to the original accusation. Look up “tu quoque” fallacy some day. Why do you people suck at logic?
1/2
mike805
@tofugolem @sphinx @futurebird actually I think the whole system, and all Republican and Democratic presidents, break the law every day.
Anyone who thinks there are good guys in American politics (outside of the occasional local politician who has not been through the filter yet) doesn't get it.
America is just the strong arm of a financial cartel. The British used to perform this function once, but now it is the USA. It is a criminal enterprise, not a government.
Sphinx of Black Quartz
Very nicely put. We have a long line of Republican presidents who attempted to undermine democracy, up to and including collaborating with hostile foreign nations. None of them ever faced meaningful consequences. Trump was not only inevitable, he's not even the end point — the next Republican attempt to subvert or nullify elections will be even more blatant.
Tofu Golem
@futurebird
Bingo!
Nixon didn't go to prison.
Ford wasn't immediately impeached for pardoning Nixon.
Reagan didn't go to prison.
Bush I didn't go to prison.
Bush II didn't go to prison.
Each and every step along the way, Democrats, Republicans, and the mainstream media told us that it would be “too disruptive” to have the rule of law.
So we made Trump inevitable by declaring that Republican presidents are above the law.
I would say losing the republic would be “disruptive.”
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