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   Evan Prodromou (evan@prodromou.pub)'s status on Tuesday, 14-Feb-2023 22:20:20 JST Evan Prodromou

   Most of the comments are, "I want to want to take the train, but I don't."

   I'm train by default. This distance is also pretty tractable by our electric car. It's not great by plane.

   • Embed this notice
     Evan Prodromou (evan@prodromou.pub)'s status on Tuesday, 14-Feb-2023 22:32:11 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     • James Wynn 🧐

     @jameswynn so, you prefer imaginary trains that are plentiful and fast.

   • Embed this notice
     James Wynn 🧐 (jameswynn@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 14-Feb-2023 22:32:12 JST James Wynn 🧐

     in reply to

     @evan
     I definitely prefer trains, but alas there are few to be found in my area and the ones you can find are incredibly slow.

   • Embed this notice
     Evan Prodromou (evan@prodromou.pub)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 01:02:41 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     Many people in the US responded that the train system there isn't good, so they wouldn't use it.

     I am mixed about the results, as before.

     The question doesn't ask about travelling in any particular place, nor about travelling from your home.

     I may specify that in the future.

   • Embed this notice
     Evan Prodromou (evan@prodromou.pub)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 01:05:34 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     I also find the idea of what your preference would be in counterfactual universes a little hard to grasp.

     A lot of the responses said things about how if the train system near them were faster, more frequent, more convenient, etc. they would prefer it.

     It is a strange kind of discussion.

     We could come up with counterfactuals on any mode of transportation that would eventually make it preferred.

     Why would it be worthwhile to talk about preferences for imaginary transportation systems, then?

   • Embed this notice
     Evan Prodromou (evan@prodromou.pub)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 01:10:38 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     I think there might be some cognitive dissonance at work.

     https://w.wiki/J7Q

     People are trying to resolve the two conflicting frames "cool people like trains" and "I don't take trains", and the result is expressing a preference for a non-existent ideal train system.

   • Embed this notice
     Evan Prodromou (evan@prodromou.pub)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 01:24:31 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     • mcc

     @mcc Is that right?

     What does it mean to prefer something that you don't like and don't use?

     Are people actually comparing all the aspects on these transportation modes, like price, schedule, door-to-door travel time, comfort, on-time rate, and then choosing a mode that *doesn't* meet their personal priorities?

   • Embed this notice
     mcc (mcc@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 01:24:32 JST mcc

     in reply to

     @evan Maybe part of the problem here is the ambiguity of the word "Preferred". The mode I would prefer to use is not the mode I would typically use in practice.

   • Embed this notice
     Evan Prodromou (evan@prodromou.pub)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 01:26:29 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     • Brion Vibber :blobcatcoffee:​

     @brion I don't know. I'm kind of down a rabbit hole here myself.

     Like, if you prefer an idealized version of trains that doesn't actually represent how trains work near your home, or even anywhere, what information are we getting out of that?

   • Embed this notice
     Brion Vibber :blobcatcoffee:​ (brion@bikeshed.vibber.net)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 01:26:30 JST Brion Vibber :blobcatcoffee:​

     in reply to

     @evan so preferred should mean what I would prefer or what I would actually take? *More confused than ever*

   • Embed this notice
     mcc (mcc@mastodon.social)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 01:34:09 JST mcc

     in reply to

     @evan Well, what I mean

     If I say "I prefer to travel by train" then I am clearly stating a preference (a desire).

     But if I say "My preferred mode of travel is car", that *implies* it is the desired mode of transportation, but I could imagine interpreting that sentence to idiomatically mean "My customary mode of travel is car" without stating a value preference.

     I could be wrong about this, but I think there may be an actual quirk of colloquial English here.

     clacke likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Evan Prodromou (evan@prodromou.pub)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 01:34:09 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     • mcc

     @mcc I think it's like, absent any other factors except the name of the transportation mode, I would prefer trains, but with real-world attributes, I'll make a more nuanced decision.

   • Embed this notice
     Dr. Matt Lee ?:verified: (mattl@social.mat.tl)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 02:17:05 JST Dr. Matt Lee ?:verified:

     in reply to

     @evan If I can go by train and it's practical I will. I'd rather never fly. I haven't left New England in 4 years.

   • Embed this notice
     Evan Prodromou (evan@prodromou.pub)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 02:41:42 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     • Pete Forsyth

     @PeteForsyth I'm not requiring anything. I think starting from home is probably how most people can visualise this question.

   • Embed this notice
     Pete Forsyth (peteforsyth@mastodon.oeru.org)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 02:41:43 JST Pete Forsyth

     in reply to

     @evan
     Then why are you requiring that we consider train travel in an abstract place, rather than originating from home?

     Most trips originate from home, by definition.

   • Embed this notice
     Evan Prodromou (evan@prodromou.pub)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 02:51:48 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     • nev

     @nev Common, yes. Reasonable, no.

   • Embed this notice
     nev (nev@bananachips.club)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 02:51:49 JST nev

     in reply to

     @evan i feel you're being intentionally(?) obtuse here. "if the trains in North America were as convenient and efficient as the trains in Europe, I would take the train more" is a very common and reasonable opinion

   • Embed this notice
     andyc (andyc@mastodon.sdf.org)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 08:12:26 JST andyc

     in reply to

     @evan I think this is easily explained. A lot of people acknowledge deep down that train is the 'correct' answer for sustainability and the environment. The plethora of excuses is simply a justification to themselves of why they actually voted 'Car'.

     As for me, well it's obvious. If jetpacks were commercially available at an affordable price with sufficient range and an exemplary safety record - Jetpacks.

   • Embed this notice
     Evan Prodromou (evan@prodromou.pub)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 08:12:26 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     • andyc

     @andyc if ifs and buts were candy and nuts

   • Embed this notice
     Evan Prodromou (evan@prodromou.pub)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 08:20:21 JST Evan Prodromou

     in reply to

     • clacke

     @clacke correct.

   • Embed this notice
     clacke (clacke@libranet.de)'s status on Wednesday, 15-Feb-2023 08:20:22 JST clacke

     in reply to
     @evan Your two statements here are contradictory.
     
     > The question doesn't ask about travelling in any particular place, nor about travelling from your home.
     So then Americans can say trains.
     
     > I also find the idea of what your preference would be in counterfactual universes a little hard to grasp.
     So then Americans can't say trains.
   • Embed this notice
     James Brown (roguelazer@hachyderm.io)'s status on Saturday, 18-Feb-2023 15:23:26 JST James Brown

     in reply to

     @evan I don't think it's so much counterfactual as people thinking "that time I traveled to a civilized country and took a train, it was the best 300 mile trip of my life, but I live in the USA where trains are considered socialist demon vehicles and thus impractical for such a trip"

     That being said, I took the Amtrak Pacific Surfliner down the coast of CA once and it was great (although comically, unbelievably slow).

     clacke likes this.