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1. Embed this notice
   NiceMicro (nicemicro@fosstodon.org)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Jan-2023 19:35:35 JST NiceMicro

   Recently, multiple #Linux #Podcasts I listen to, talked about the issue of "not being nice" to those on Linux who want to use proprietary software.

   I think proprietary sw is a problem, especially if you run it on a personal device. However, sometimes it is hard to avoid it.

   However, practical concerns should not affect advocacy. We should advocate for the "ideal" world we would like to see, and consider practical solutions as compromises one has to make in a non-ideal world.

   #FreeSoftware

   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Jan-2023 19:35:34 JST 翠星石

     in reply to
     @nicemicro >on Linux who want to use proprietary software
     Sorry to break it to you, but Linux is proprietary software, so those systemd/Linux users don't need to do anything extra.
   • Embed this notice
     Abandoned (doctormo@fosstodon.org)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Jan-2023 19:36:02 JST Abandoned

     in reply to

     • MattZ
     • Kai Evans

     @kaievans @colinsmatt11 @nicemicro

     I think you are wrong.

     Commercial software is not the opposite of free software. It's the opposite of volunteer software.

     The ideal situation is that you pay for your free software. But most people do not, they depend on volunteers or worse, scraps from a big company which often have very different needs.

     A good complaint is that few volunteer software project make commercial contribution possible, or easy. But that's a bit more involved.

   • Embed this notice
     Kai Evans (kaievans@fosstodon.org)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Jan-2023 19:36:07 JST Kai Evans

     in reply to

     • MattZ

     @colinsmatt11 @nicemicro sure thing, were not talking tautology here though. I'm talking simply about availability of commercial software options

     FOSS doesn't even have a decent email/calendar client, let alone any specialised software for media production. Fuck it wouldn't even have a decent code editor if it's not for vs code ;)

     And it will never have those because all FOSS cares about is software aka programming. And there is much more involved in making a great product that that

     翠星石 repeated this.
   • Embed this notice
     MattZ (colinsmatt11@gleasonator.com)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Jan-2023 19:36:08 JST MattZ

     in reply to

     • Kai Evans
     @nicemicro @kaievans Professional, Industry Standard and alikes are just euphemism for software recommendation.
   • Embed this notice
     NiceMicro (nicemicro@fosstodon.org)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Jan-2023 19:36:09 JST NiceMicro

     in reply to

     • Kai Evans

     @kaievans commercial grade software belongs on corporate machines that are not "personal" devices. As a corporation, you don't have privacy concerns. You might have corporate secrets, but you also probably have lawyers for such contingencies.

     If Free Software will be unable to exploit regular people by trying to sell them overpriced "professional" software... we don't lose out on anything.

   • Embed this notice
     Kai Evans (kaievans@fosstodon.org)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Jan-2023 19:36:10 JST Kai Evans

     in reply to

     @nicemicro maybe so, but FOSS is also useless at replicating a lot of proprietary software. It's been 20 years, and I have my doubts it will ever happen.

     the way I see it, solving the security problem is more approachable by FOSS community, than solving the lack of commercial grade software

   • Embed this notice
     NiceMicro (nicemicro@fosstodon.org)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Jan-2023 19:36:11 JST NiceMicro

     in reply to

     • Kai Evans

     @kaievans And Android is also a good example of how much of a spyware infested hellscape it could be.

     Your access controls and constraints are worthless if every app you get from the store refuses to work without you giving them access to your location, webcam, etc.

   • Embed this notice
     Kai Evans (kaievans@fosstodon.org)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Jan-2023 19:36:12 JST Kai Evans

     in reply to

     @nicemicro I wouldn't actually mind me some proprietary software on Linux. Well, as long as it's containerised property and can't snoop around the system too much.

     I think it's the lack of commerce in Linux ecosystem that is keeping the OS back from mass adoption and becoming a norm.

     Android is a good example of how powerful could be

   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Jan-2023 19:58:15 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • Kai Evans
     @kaievans > I wouldn't actually mind me some proprietary software on Linux.
     Well Linux is proprietary software, so part of your freedom is surrendered right at the start, but of course you can surrender more of it.
     >as long as it's containerised property and can't snoop around the system too much.
     I'm sure those containers stop proprietary malware from doing malicious things (hint: they don't).
     
     > the lack of commerce in Linux ecosystem that is keeping the OS back from mass adoption and becoming a norm.
     Linux isn't even an OS:
     "Sadly, a kernel by itself gets you nowhere. To get a working system you need a shell, compilers, a library etc. These are separate parts and may be under a stricter (or even looser) copyright. Most of the tools used with linux are GNU software and are under the GNU copyleft. These tools aren't in the distribution - ask me (or GNU) for more info. " - Linus Torvalds, right below the proprietary software license: https://linuxreviews.org/Notes_for_linux_release_0.01
     
     Look at all these commercial proprietary software companies provided behind cloudflare and proprietary JavaScript: https://www.linuxfoundation.org/about/members
     But I guess that's not proprietary enough for you?
     
     >Android is a good example of how powerful could be
     What are you even on about?
     Android uses the kernel, Linux and does all the proprietary things that you desire.
     
     You seem to have fallen for the trap of calling GNU/Linux and systemd/Linux after the kernel, which is actually mostly irrelevant, but is named as some credit is due.
     
     >but FOSS is also useless at replicating a lot of proprietary software.
     Gratis, source-available, proprietary software replicates proprietary software perfectly.
     
     Meanwhile, free software has really replaced a massive amount of proprietary software - sadly the proprietary overlords are excellent at hiding the existence of such replacement software.
     
     >FOSS doesn't even have a decent email/calendar client
     Correct, no piece of proprietary software is decent.
     
     Evolution, Icedove, gnus, claws-mail, mutt and far more are all free software email clients of excellent quality, plus more importantly, they also respect your freedom.
     
     >let alone any specialised software for media production
     I edit video and audio with ffmpeg just fine.
     
     There's also KDEnlive, blender, Ardour, Sneedacity, the list is large and they respect the users freedom.
     
     
     >it wouldn't even have a decent code editor if it's not for vs code ;)
     You sure love that proprietary malware huh?: https://code.visualstudio.com/license
     
     Even looking at it purely technologically, "VSCode" is webshit garbage and emacs far outclasses it.
     
     >there is much more involved in making a great product that that
     I guess if you measure a "great product" as how well you enslave the users, I guess proprietary software needs to get involved.
     
     
     Please cease your futile attempts to corrupt freedom with proprietary malware - you know you can't stand the holy light of GNU, but you won't admit it.
   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Wednesday, 11-Jan-2023 20:11:37 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • MattZ
     @colinsmatt11 >Professional, Industry Standard and alikes are just euphemism for software recommendation.
     Even then, such terms seem to be only used on software that does the opposite of what the words mean.
     
     There's nothing less professional than software refusing to operate, since the "subscription account" login timed out or you didn't pay the monthly rent on time.
     
     Even if you always make sure to pay the ever increasing rent, sometimes the "subscription" checking server goes down and then you can't use the software.
     
     It seems that people have become so used to unprofessionalism and those striving to be unprofessional than ever before, that they think a few convenient features makes some software "professional".
     
     
     Also, software that is being wielded as a yoke of unjust power by a single proprietary software company will never be "industry standard", as there is no industry when one business has a complete monopoly and stranglehold on the "industry".
     
     
     GNU runs a huge part of what is really industrially crucial as it is very professional in respecting the users freedom.
   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Thursday, 12-Jan-2023 18:57:55 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • Kai Evans
     @kaievans I was hoping that you would have a more than 15 second attention span, but I guess you don't.
   • Embed this notice
     Kai Evans (kaievans@fosstodon.org)'s status on Thursday, 12-Jan-2023 18:57:57 JST Kai Evans

     in reply to

     • 翠星石

     @Suiseiseki do you seriously expect me to read that long of an argument?

   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Thursday, 12-Jan-2023 19:37:10 JST 翠星石

     in reply to

     • Kai Evans
     @kaievans There it is, another online argument won.
     
     Imagine being unable to come up with a single argument against my points.
   • Embed this notice
     Kai Evans (kaievans@fosstodon.org)'s status on Thursday, 12-Jan-2023 19:37:11 JST Kai Evans

     in reply to

     • 翠星石

     @Suiseiseki no, sorry to disappoint, I zone out when I see stupidity very quickly