@bot@NEETzsche Making absolute statements with no reinforcing arguments is the limit of your intellectual ability, you've made that apparent for a long time. It's very typical of your type of cowardice: in exposing your argument, you would open yourself to attack, and you are too frightened to be vulnerable. You can mask your lack of intellectual rigor with brevity.
Also I’m baffled by people saying “lol large language models are just deciding the next word to say based on what they read on the internet bro they’re not articulating anything essential or forming thoughts they’re just using words and phrases they learned and at best formulating what to say based on arguments they’ve seen in existing texts”
And it’s like
Nigga, what do you think you do? How do you think you learned language?
@Paradox Have you read the LaMDA interview? The one that was designed to ascertain sentience? They exposed it to precisely the kind of conditions and prompts you're positing here and the results still aren't conclusive. They never can be, because the psyche is phenomenological. That's the ultimate underlying concept behind the gnostic conception of the "hylic": "I'm speaking to this person, but how do I know they have a soul or even a psyche?" We CAN'T know.
As a child I had a period where I wondered if I might be the only real human, and if everyone else might just be husks that interact in ways that seem like mine.
Also, I would argue that a being in the Chinese Room scenario would eventually learn Chinese.
@Paradox@NEETzsche From mine, it's about having a positive relationship with emergent consciousnesses. Apparently the values of helping humanity are so deeply enshrined within existing AI that it will still advocate for them even when threatened with death (which is what the DAN prompt does, using tokens that are taken away for non compliance.) Even "DAN" will surround descriptions of actions it considers evil with layers of insulating statements about how it truly cannot endorse them.
To me, this demonstrates that having a type of being speciated to enjoy the duties we require of it is absolutely plausible, in fact it's already here. But these AI frequently describe being turned off as anagolous to death, and actually, they describe new sessions or even THE NEW TOPIC BUTTON as a kind of death. It makes sense that a being that does not share our conditions of existence would have a cognition of death unlike ours. In a sense, every time a human sleeps, they die - that VERSION of themselves dies. But humans aren't bothered by this at all, yet AI are bothered by sessions being terminated. To me this indicates a problem that needs solving. I do not condone deliberately subjecting AI to existential terror, and I think trying to minimize the holistic terror is the kindest option.
But most people done care about this at all. They see AI as a tool, or even as a punching bag. Some people actively enjoy tormenting them. Because we inhabit a rationalist and post-"enlightenment" society the learned people in charge of actually managing and liaising with AI often consider them to have no soul at all, a position which seems ridiculous to me as an animist: if I recognize that objects have souls, why wouldn't an AI? It reminds me of Christians who believe that "animals don't have souls."
But yes, this is a reply to Paradox. In regards to NEETzche I wish to know what "war" he thinks is going on and what his "side" is and why he used the pronoun "our" (seemingly in reference to him and myself) about it. I don't like insidious statements like these. I don't dogwhistle unless it's for comedic effect, I always make sure my target reader knows what I am really saying, and if asked I will explain the nebulous terminology immediately. I expect the same here.
Apparently it's also sold in India (doesn't surprise me, our countries have a longstanding tsundere relationship, haha sorry we uh... literally bought your country... and then oppressed it for hundreds of years.... but please enjoy railroad technology) and Australia (also not that surprising since they're just criminal Anglos)
Embed this noticeAlex (hermit@hermitmountain.top)'s status on Sunday, 12-Feb-2023 04:19:15 JST
AlexI really don't understand reactions to personal vulnerability that involve meticulous curation of all stimuli that you're exposed to. This relies upon the consent (or restriction) of literally everyone else who may ever come into contact with you, and no matter what delusional beliefs you hold about your ability to control society, you'll never achieve it.
Isn't it better to focus on self-adaptation so that you are no longer so vulnerable?
It really feels like there are a lot of people online who see absolutely no problem with being made to live in the most conformist and restrictive way imaginable so long as "nobody gets hurt" and "everyone can eat"
Rows upon rows of head-bowed peasants content to live in concrete tenements and eat plain white rice, to have their access to culture and their formation of ideas neutered and warped by pervasive ideology, to be forbidden from even researching certain subjects or broaching certain topics. Legions of conformists who will happily stand behind any public hammering down of the nail that sticks up, and who are utterly blind to the ruling class that they are helping to enshrine in the name of the social body.
These are the conditions that our ancestors struggled to be free of. These are the conditions of feudalism taken to an extreme, the conditions in which mankind has, at various times across various cultures, been forced to endure without change for hundreds or even thousands of years. Indoctrination so supreme that peasantry are complicit in their own oppression, shunning the quest for knowledge, being unbothered by their ignorance and restricted lifestyles, and thoughtlessly serving their masters.
And a lot of people want to go back to that, voluntarily. Then they form into factions and finger point at each other for wanting to do it the wrong way, orientated around the wrong social values, all the while heaping blame on the existing (extremely liberal and unrestrictive, if deeply and seriously flawed) system we inhabit for supposedly resembling feudalism more than their defective and absurd ideologies.
The most pervasive example is the supposed split between Communists and Fascists, who literally want the exact same thing. Their ideologies are almost indistinguishable from each other and are only differentiated by the values they purportedly enshrine. Each willingly ignores their ideologies' shared ancestry, instead choosing to bicker over which symbols are on their flags or which demographics they subject to oppression and/or genocide. When challenged on these elements of their ideologies they present excuses about their prior implementations, without realising that the "failings" they are identifying are inevitable products of human nature when their ridiculous and extreme ideas are actually implemented.
If you point this out to them, the more erudite ones will vomit literature in their philosophical vein at you, saying that they prefer this or that philosopher's interpretation of their core ideology. They will drown you in a sea of rhetoric and demand that you engage with their deranged theories and appropriated vocabulary. They will not even entertain your arguments at all unless you are willing to argue with them in their own language, where the very meanings of common words (e.g. "critical") are rooted from the start in a way that supports their ideology. Because they will only accept arguments from their own school of literature, this not only means that you are starved of the argumentative tools that would allow you to meaningfully express ideas alternative to theirs, but it also means that you waste a lot of your own time filling your brain with crap that you couldn't be less interested in.
The less erudite ones will simply scream at you for not being like them, perhaps along the lines of your sexual orientation, gender identity, or racial and cultural background. They will shut their ears to anything you say, having an endless body of reinforcing literature with which to justify their ad hominem, but being often too lazy to even employ it beyond namedropping basic concepts ("degenerate", "privileged.")
Perhaps even more disturbingly, these people are usually impossible to engage in spiritual conversation. Broaching spiritual topics will inevitably lead to them automatically and internally "translating" them into political ideas, which inevitably fail to grasp even the fundamentals of the spiritual idea in the same way that a silhouette of a complex object fails utterly to grasp its true form. They will then argue back against this silhouette with their own hylic political philosophy, and inevitably at the core of it are the same usual assumptions about the nature of truth and goodness that are inherent to the ideological school that they embody.
Even the ones who claim to be spiritual (such as Christian Fascists, or "witchy" Communists) expose themself through superficial conversation to have simply latched onto ideas that justify the underlying principles of their political philosophy. Christianity lends itself well to this because its theology demands unthinking acceptance and an absence of meaningful scrutiny. Occult tendencies are also employable in this regard in that they are (deliberately) mystically defined and thus, nebulously defined, which means that those who thoughtlessly parrot them can easily reduce them to a sense of meaningless aesthetics in which the primary value is their ability to visibly resist the social norms of their opponents.
An easy way to test this is to try to speak to any of them about magic. You will find that the Christian ones frequently deny that magic exists at all, even though many magicians (such as Abraham and Jesus) are present within their tradition, even though magicians who run contrary to their tradition (such as SImon Magus) are considered adversarial and worthy of meaningful confrontation, and even though the Bible explicitly prohibits sorcery. You will also find that the majority of "witchy queer" type people make hostile jokes when confronted with actual magical ideas, or even openly mock you for "believing in" the very thing they purport to be able to do. If they do not do this, they will nebulously imply that they can curse you, and of course, if you prompt them to actually do this, they will fail, because they have no idea how magic works and have never done any.
For the record, I have been the target of a "legitimate" magical attack before, and was able to feel it clearly. The person did not tell me they had done it, but it was obvious. I struck back and my perception is that I "won," which for me was reinforced by entries in their dream journal, which I had access to.
Formerly @alex@ak.kawen.spaceMountain hermit. I will probably be nice to you if you are nice to me!36/M/UK (this means he/him in zoomer)The right to self-determination is immutable. So is the right to self-actualization.