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@guyjantic @mekkaokereke Years ago I was listening to a Democracy Now interview with a Deep Green environmentalist, who went on about (European) explorers in North America encountering dense populations of wildlife; he kept repeating, "rivers so full of fish that you could walk across them".

I thought, that doesn't sound like a lost paradise. That sounds like an ecosystem out of balance because of the sudden disappearance of a predator species.

Humans are part of ecosystems, not alien to them.