@ignaloidas @wolf480pl >This hasn't been the common accepted meaning for ages
People have gravitated to an incorrect meaning that misleads the user into thinking that a nasty proprietary program must be this "firmware" stuff instead.

I do not hesitate to call software, software, even if it is popular to mislead people into not realizing that something is software.

If you (or the manufacturer) can electronically change it, it's software, if you (and the manufacturer) cannot change it, it's hardware.

>If you connect an extra cable to the device and use an external device to change it, is it "electronically change it" or no?
If you change the bytes of the program, you've changed the software.

EEPROM can often be externally reprogrammed with wires.

>There is a spectrum between hardware and software, and this completely ignores it.
There is no spectrum - there is software and there is hardware.

Some hardware runs software that is functionally equivalent to a circuit, which is fine provided there is no proprietary license and the user has the freedom to go reprogram the EEPROM if they wish.

>RYF says FPGA bytecode is "hardware"
It does not say that - it lists that software running on FPGA's is software, although it is ideally temporarily excepted.

>the main purpose of the device is the damn ability to change what's on the FPGA.
Not particularly - in many cases including a FPGA chip costs less than getting the hardware designed fabbed and the ability to change what's on the FPGA is never used.

>The simplest way to fulfill the "software installation is not intended after the user obtains the product" is to add blockers.
Adding handcuffs is in no way simpler than just including an EEPROM with no R/W restrictions.

>satisfy all of the objective qualifications for a certification is making shit worse
ROMs and EEPROM's actually makes the hardware functionally better, as the only way to fix any issues is to do a product recall, such products tend to be of acceptable quality.

The first release of hotloaded software is usually hot garbage, full of bugs and typically what happens is that one or two updates are released that fix the most glaring bugs, but such software is still a buggy mess.

I've noticed that freedom-respecting 802.11n Atheros cards actually work properly, but freedom-denying 802.11ac cards are buggy garbage (i.e. I've observed that the was one update that fixed a severe bug that made the card almost useless (would time out instead of connecting to APs), but that was it) - for me it's the 802.11n cards that actually work properly.

>You absolutely can have free software Linux without GNU or shit
You cannot as Linux is proprietary software that doesn't operate on its own; https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/torvalds/linux.git/tree/init/main.c#n1522

There is no nontrivial free OS's other than GNU/Linux-libre and GNU/Hurd - every other OS I've inspected has been nonfree.

If the OS lacks GNU and sucks, it clearly would be important to note that by writing that it's BusyBox/Linux.

>Find a single SDD or HDD that has no ability to update it's firmware.
I haven't ever been offered a proprietary HDD update and intend to never install one.

I don't get where you get the concept that RYF requires disabling the ability to update things - all that is required is that the user isn't induced to install proprietary software, which won't happen in the case of a HDD unless you were to.

On non-handcuffed HDD's, the user still has the freedom to write free software for such HDDs.


>OSHWA certification requires that all software for using the hardware is open source. https://certification.oshwa.org/
That site is full of corporate propaganda.

In fact, what the certification requires is; "In order to qualify for OSHWA certification, you must have chosen an open source license for your hardware, your software (if any), and your documentation"

All this means is that the developer's software must qualify, if there is proprietary software from elsewhere for RAMinit or whatever, that's accepted.

>Why I, as a user, should need to get new hardware if I want to start using free software with it?
Effective hardware reverse engineering unfortunately requires external hardware like scopes.

Most EEPROMs can be reprogrammed just fine without requiring external hardware if you really want.

Software on EEPROMs also tends not to be obfuscated, signed or encrypted unlike hotloaded software.

>The cost can be zero
Freedom is never gratis.

>So you'd rather have all of that stuff in EEPROMs? Making the product worse and burying any chances for simple updates to any free software rewrites of them.
If all that stuff was in EEPROMs, the hardware wouldn't be as buggy - the Wi-Fi chip wouldn't be hot garbage for example.

Running an update script that does a sanity check and flashes an EEPROM is quite simple.

Hotloaded proprietary software appears to be the thing that buries the chances, as I don't really recall many cases of replacement of such.

>Malicious? How?
All mobile chipsets are malicious as disobeying the user and disallowing the change of the IMEI and reporting the users location is the requirement of the mobile signalling specifications.

>even though it's stored on NAND Flash (not EEPROM)
NAND flash is a type of EEPROM.

>on the modem module, you can update it from the main CPU, hence failing the "within which software installation is not intended after the user obtains the product" clause.
That's an exception clause, rather a restriction clause.

Offering a free software update to be installed onto that chipset would in no way fail RYF.

As occurs in practice, as it used EEPROM NAND flash, there was actually a partial free software replacement of the modem userspace written - but the much more complicated kernelspace that actually handles the protocols is still proprietary.

>It may, but the last fully certified computer is ~15 years old
False.
https://ryf.fsf.org/index.php/products/Talos-II-Mainboard
https://ryf.fsf.org/index.php/products/Talos-II-lite-Mainboard
https://ryf.fsf.org/index.php/products/KCMA-D8-Workstation
https://ryf.fsf.org/products/TET-D16

That hardware is newer than 15 years old, is very good and is quite fast.