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    Luke T. Shumaker (lukeshu@fosstodon.org)'s status on Monday, 02-Dec-2024 10:43:16 JSTLuke T. ShumakerLuke T. Shumaker
    in reply to
    • Alexandre Oliva (moving to @lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br)
    • Matthew Garrett

    @mjg59 At the time of @lxo's first reply (https://gnusocial.jp/notice/8003926) and your first reply (https://nondeterministic.computer/@mjg59/113570496539021220) I think a charitable reading still allowed a non-transphobic interpretation of Radek's posts. A narrow sliver of possibility still existed. (I'll elaborate in another post)

    Rysiek was trying to get Radek to slip up and remove that sliver. Given all of Rysiek's time+effort, you (https://nondeterministic.computer/@mjg59/113571171779365863) got Radek to remove that sliver quite quickly (https://101010.pl/@rcz/113571236878761566).

    In conversationabout 6 months ago from fosstodon.orgpermalink

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    1. No result found on File_thumbnail lookup.
      Radek Czajka (@rcz@101010.pl)
      from Radek Czajka
      @mjg59@nondeterministic.computer I'm not interested in pivoting to that discussion, certainly in this form. I've had enough contact with priests in my life to recognize it for what it is. What you're doing here is assuming that everyone either shares your metaphysical beliefs or is immoral. This is an extreme form of prejudice, bigotry. It's certainly fine to attach moral judgement to sharing moral beliefs, e.g. “everyone deserves dignity” — if you don't believe that, people will rightly judge you. But it becomes bigotry when moral judgement is attached to sharing metaphysical beliefs, like “people have souls”. Even if you believe there's a moral value connected to that metaphysical belief, like if you think: “if people don't believe they have souls, they'll have no reason not to kill one another!” — you *are* bigoted if you assume that people who don't believe in souls are immoral. This distinction is important. People are entitled to have different metaphysical beliefs than you and they aren't immoral for it. If you start judging them for that, that's just your bigotry. What you're presenting is clearly a metaphysical belief, not a moral one — there's no inherent moral value to being a man or a woman. You might connect some moral value to that metaphysical belief in your worldview, but that's on you. So what you're presenting is bigotry, by virtue of saying: either everyone shares my metaphysical belief, or they are immoral. You're being bigoted. Stop that. @rysiek@mstdn.social @darnell@one.darnell.one @lxo@gnusocial.jp
    2. Domain not in remote thumbnail source whitelist: gnusocial.jp
      Alexandre Oliva (lxo@gnusocial.jp)'s status on Saturday, 30-Nov-2024 14:00:42 JST - GNU social JP
      the conversation didn't start well, it got very informative, but it got tiring to watch you unrelentingly trying to staple some contradiction onto radek. ISTM you're projecting prejudice. it doesn't look good. I wish the conversation would go back to respectful and informative, it would be more in line with what I've learned to expect from you, and why I've often enjoyed reading what you share.
    3. No result found on File_thumbnail lookup.
      Matthew Garrett (@mjg59@nondeterministic.computer)
      from Matthew Garrett
      @rysiek@mstdn.social @rcz@101010.pl @darnell@one.darnell.one @lxo@gnusocial.jp the reason this is interpreted as prejudice is the assertion that someone raised as a woman, who identifies as a woman, and who has always been treated as a woman is actually not a woman, but a "man with underdeveloped external genitalia". Accepting that argument means accepting that trans women aren't women, which is obviously transphobic. The nuance isn't complicated.
    4. No result found on File_thumbnail lookup.
      Matthew Garrett (@mjg59@nondeterministic.computer)
      from Matthew Garrett
      @rcz@101010.pl @rysiek@mstdn.social @darnell@one.darnell.one @lxo@gnusocial.jp Do you believe that trans women are women?
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