@lanodan to me part of why they're such huge failures is precisely because they got adoption and yet even in spite of that are bordering on useless and have the most embarrassingly shitty implementations imaginable that are also the *only* implementations that have any real-world usefulness. but that's what happens when instead of having actual serious researchers writing these protocols, you have a bunch of Dunning-Krugerite techbro assholes who think they're gonna just YOLO their way to a re-decentralized internet