@BadOptniks @Crux_Invictus @nugger @SuperLutheran The one thing I don't get is how the Baptists and adjacent spheres see lapsed Christians. Is it generally a "they were never really Christians to begin with" thing? To me, that feels like a loophole to square the circle but have the same net outcome as denominations they claim aren't real Christians. I'm not so fixated on perfect explanations and hard and fast rules for things that aren't cleanly outlined by Christ and the apostles, but I do think "God knows our heart" is a good enough explanation for almost everything.