@pavel @vegard @gregkh @kernellogger @larsmb the issue for me as an outsider to this (currently not employed within the kernel, though contributing to it a fair bit) is the utter denial that there are consequences like that coming from the pro- side despite the opposing side saying 'yes maybe we shouldn't care but customers care, regulators care, etc. etc' and the other side >/dev/null.

Having a conversation starts with acking or refuting what the other side has to say, not acting like it wasn't said.

Again, happy to stand corrected if I'm wrong here! Just my perspective.