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@hakan_geijer @CedarTea

I think there's two different things going on

(this is a hugely personal view)

1) what does society look like in a *genuinely* post-state world

and honestly, I don't know. My sense is that it will be a mix of post-scarcity (apples) and scarcity (eg: nice clothes and/or technology)

As it so happens, by utter coincidence, I (genuinely) have an apple tree. You're more than welcome to my surplus.

On the other hand, I'd quite like to still be able to buy eye-glasses so that I can, y'know, see. And a mobility scooter, so that I can, y'know, get into town. Which may well involve scarce materials, and may well involve a sort of trade - what that trade looks like, I can't tell you because it's outside of our realms of imagination currently.

2) The other thing is that I don't believe that we will enter a "stateless society" in my lifetime.

What that means is that the person who does the unpleasant jobs (lets use the obvious one - garbage collection) will *still need to pay taxes in currency issued by their state*. This is very separate to the above point, I fully admit that.

Even if they are able to be self-sufficient in literally every other way (including having all other "stuff" provided to them under a mutual aid/communist system), they still need to have an income.

In which case, pay them more.

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I like to imagine a world beyond the state, but it's not my focus - mine is "what can we do next week?"

And next week, we're still going to need "money", no two ways about it.

(Other people are far better, and far more qualified, than I am at the "what happens after")