@freemo @Free_Press @nuncio @johnshirley2024 i haven't really benefit from intelligence orgs making liking me mandatory, so have gotten quite some object lessons in how collateral damage affects opinion.

its worth hearing out why the groups hate each other (it's part of old negociation, and nonviolent communication to do exactly this) though it might not matter as much.

i've seen that where people void their moral authority and then try to claim being proven hypocrites is whataboutism. its true, though unrelated to that i'm not sure how you actually resolve a situation that degraded.

tis why i tend to, lately, harp on the importance of third parties who haven't yet compromised themselves on the specific issue.