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@scorpiontongue that does make sense yes! And with that clarification in mind, I don't think we disagree in substance — which is why I said what I said in the first place, because shifting to speaking in terms of doing whatever is needed to ensure the safety and health of the community instead of punishment is an important part of actual abolitionism that I think you'd grok.

To be fair, there is sort of a spectrum for reactive to proactive, so we might still differ a bit since I'm a pretty nonviolent person despite my trash talk, but again, we don't disagree in substance I don't think.