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@scorpiontongue I... don't know that we should be punishing people... exactly... because I don't actually think that will make them understand what they did or stop doing it and I don't think it will really do anything but make us cruel and vindictive... but I do think we should be willing to do whatever it takes to defend our communities from harm (including repeat harm) and that can end up *looking* like punishing people because it can involve beating them up or killing them in self defense or disassociating with them or exiling them. But I'm not sure the logic of punishment really holds up as opposed to the logic of community defense. Then again, I was only mildly beaten and psychologically abused growing up, I didn't experience anything truly heinous, so maybe I'm speaking where I shouldn't