@Owl @natsock @AndkonsReich @AnimeTradCath Okay, but the point isn't about primal jewish behavior — scheming, plotting, etc. It's whether or not they self sabotaged for almost two millennia, or 1500 years if we want to be a bit more precise. It's also about whether they could've done that given other historical data which suggests otherwise. This is the conclusion that people who actually care about the history of this issue have came to and isn't my specialty.