@Humpleupagus @fatepony @spitfire @verita84 "What if what we did in the past is the best way to promote social and meaningful lives?"

Because the majority of men literally died off without having kids or a wife. That isn't a model that works for a civilized society. You need to give the majority of people a reason to exist. And this isn't simply welfare for the sake of it, the majority of people are capable of being productive and healthy.

"You assume that something is not desirable because of its age. I don't see what time has to do with it. In fact, you use the language "modern civilization," which is dismissive of past systems without any reason being proffered."

19th century civilization was a better place for the vast majority of people than, say, the bronze age. It has gone downhill from there, due specifically to cultural regression (the abolition of traditional marriage, aka cultural socialism).

"You are the one avoiding any real discussion through the use of sophistry."

No.