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   「 Fried Fristi 」 (fristi@akkos.fritu.re)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Jul-2022 08:41:56 JST 「 Fried Fristi 」
   are we doing the pleroma vs akkoma thing again :akko_eeew:
   • ​:hyperfastparrot:​ nekobit ​:cat_sui_2:​ likes this.
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     :cacodemon_fast_spin: (dielan@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Jul-2022 08:41:54 JST :cacodemon_fast_spin:

     in reply to

     • :sprout: evil mental tofu haver
     @FloatingGhost thats gas lighting lol you posted a passive aggressive issue on their git and then made a post mocking the lack of replies you got on it, but its not you picking a fight here?
     
     Its ok to be mad about previous drama but at least have the decency to not misconstrue events that we all just saw. Thought you were better than that.
     
     @fristi
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     :sprout: evil mental tofu haver (floatingghost@ihatebeinga.live)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Jul-2022 08:41:55 JST :sprout: evil mental tofu haver

     in reply to
     @fristi lanodan _really_ wanted to so it seems it
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     welt (w@arachnid.town)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Jul-2022 08:42:22 JST welt

     in reply to

     • :cacodemon_fast_spin:
     • :sprout: evil mental tofu haver
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
     @hj @fristi @FloatingGhost @dielan This is now a spider thread.
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     :sprout: evil mental tofu haver (floatingghost@ihatebeinga.live)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Jul-2022 08:42:33 JST :sprout: evil mental tofu haver

     in reply to

     • :cacodemon_fast_spin:
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
     @hj @fristi @dielan with the greatest of delicacy and not wanting to inflame it again, lanodan's refusal to acknolwdge your less-than-stellar communication
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     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Jul-2022 08:42:33 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • :cacodemon_fast_spin:
     • :sprout: evil mental tofu haver
     @FloatingGhost @fristi @dielan that gives me zero bits of information
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     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Jul-2022 08:42:35 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • :cacodemon_fast_spin:
     • :sprout: evil mental tofu haver
     @dielan @fristi @FloatingGhost what is it this time around?
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     :sprout: evil mental tofu haver (floatingghost@ihatebeinga.live)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Jul-2022 09:00:25 JST :sprout: evil mental tofu haver

     in reply to

     • :cacodemon_fast_spin:
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
     @hj @fristi @dielan I'm going to be really blunt with you for a bit, since you seem incapable of retaining context across posts
     I'm going to lay out why, precisely, I do not want to work under the banner of pleroma and why I do not believe you can recover, one last time, and you can never again claim that I didn't explain
     1. the project lacks coherent leadership, and hence direction. you've stated that it's aiming to be "flexible" but not limited the scope in any way, leading to there being no defined niche, or image for what the software should be. it's a nebulous cloud that fits in "social" but does not know how to pick which bits to do
     2. pleroma's brand is tainted. this cannot be denied, the sheer amount of hostility flowing both ways between developers and users have made it a toxic environment. the userbase leans"free speech" and that leaks into the projects goals when they exist
     3. the project management is ill or undefined. this was exposed for all to see with the gleason thing. there is no consensus over what gets merged and who decides. this leads to PRs sitting untouched or wrongfully merged
     4. there is no central community. this contributes massively to the above. the community has been fracturing for years with segments of the userbase unwilling to cooperate for varying reasons. this leads to a lack of contributors since it's likely that one segment does not want to assist another. thus adopting one segment and making something specifically for them will lead to far better results, and is ultimately my course of action
     
     I'm not going to say anything good about soapbox, but they too have adopted one corner of the userbase
     maybe it's time to accept your dream of a unified core that provides for everyone is dead, and it's not coming back
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     ​:hyperfastparrot:​ nekobit ​:cat_sui_2:​ (neko@rdrama.cc)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Jul-2022 09:00:25 JST ​:hyperfastparrot:​ nekobit ​:cat_sui_2:​

     in reply to

     • :cacodemon_fast_spin:
     • :sprout: evil mental tofu haver
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     @FloatingGhost @fristi @hj @dielan Akkoma being a project made for a community is what is already showing how it can be bring down to a failure. Software needs to quit focusing so hard on community and remember what it truly already is; Software. Free software doesn’t need “leaders”, it needs people to write code, efficiently and effectively. All Akkoma, judging from most of the commits so far, is focused on just adding features, nothing but features, instead of really fixing and cleaning up the backend issues that have rotted in Pleroma for months. Pleroma has mostly focused on just cleaning up bugs and issues. You spent a good amount of time removing features from Pleroma too, instead of having discussions on whether X feature or Y feature is wanted. This breaks compatibility with other clients for example, you’re creating your own beast at this point.

     Gleason, in my personal opinion, did quite a lot for Pleroma. He did force merge some things, which I do frown upon, but he shit out a lot of code on a plate for people and merged over his own fixes onto Pleroma. The majority of the real disappointment from Gleason was that he was a TERF, which I can promise you one thing, will never matter in a million years. He pushes no politics onto the software itself, he is still respecting to Trans contributors; that’s how he maintains it in a mature way.

     Stop sounding entitled too, nobody has to do this, absolutely nobody. This is Free software, contribute and discuss what you want to be changed, or fork (which you do), but lashing on other developers of where your code is inherited from doesn’t help. I do remember you applying some security patches on Akkoma (with private instances leaking public threads), but you never sent a PR over to the Pleroma side to check out these things. You want everyone to use your fork and are consistent on shitting on Pleroma at this point.

     The backend is really just in a bugfix mode at this point. We don’t really need any new features, although some are handy, a lot of it is inherited from GNU Social and what we had before. It doesn’t JUST have to be the backend that improves, the frontend side of things for example is a huge mess. The backend constantly needs to be cleaned up before new shit just gets piled on, but you are just doing the latter.

     I started developing Treebird only because I saw how PleromaFE was a hack that was spiraling out of control, and I saw that really, the Fediverse just needed a lightweight, clean, simple frontend that stays out of the way and sticks to the true nature of the web. Gleason saw the same and started working on SoapboxFE. It is a lot more performant and cleans up all the issues that were riddled with PleromaFE, and introduced a familiar experience into the community as a whole. It brought things, not necessarily bad things.

     This is free software, stop being so entitled about it, everyone does it in their free time

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     :sprout: evil mental tofu haver (floatingghost@ihatebeinga.live)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Jul-2022 09:00:29 JST :sprout: evil mental tofu haver

     in reply to

     • :cacodemon_fast_spin:
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
     @hj @fristi @dielan this is a very long "I know you are but what am I" which is pretty pathetic as responses go if I'm honest
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     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Jul-2022 09:00:29 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • :cacodemon_fast_spin:
     • :sprout: evil mental tofu haver
     @FloatingGhost @fristi @dielan what does that even mean
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     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Jul-2022 09:00:30 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • :cacodemon_fast_spin:
     • :sprout: evil mental tofu haver
     @FloatingGhost @fristi @dielan >and how you've gone essentially nowhere in 6 months
     
     excuse me we got 3column mode, vue3 and many other improvements in frontend and we're also getting editing support. Sorry it's taking so long, it's hard to be focused on work and do stuff when people keep stirring shit up and saying nonsense like "lack of vision", "behoding to worst users" and that those issues somehow are deeply entrenched and cannot be fixed but supposedly akkoma fixes them all somehow.
     
     You keep explaining in excruciating details what the issues are but you never explain why they're supposedly "deeply entrenched" and that you can't fix them.
     
     I can also keep spewing nonsense saying that akkoma goes nowhere, deeply flawed etc, but I would prefer working together, or I guess, just working - with people who want to work together.
     
     I don't see how anyone would want to work with you so i guess good luck pulling upstream changes and fixing conflicts. If lanodan said something about you "burning bridges", he's probably right.
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     :sprout: evil mental tofu haver (floatingghost@ihatebeinga.live)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Jul-2022 09:00:31 JST :sprout: evil mental tofu haver

     in reply to

     • :cacodemon_fast_spin:
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
     @hj @fristi @dielan I've explained, several times, in excruciating detail, how I believe pleroma's project management to be naive at best and harmful at worst
     and how I don't believe you have any form of vision
     and how you're beholden to the worst users
     and how you've gone essentially nowhere in 6 months
     
     these are fundamental flaws in pleroma as it is and I cannot fix them, they're too deeply entrenched
     
     you've several times described how "everyone decided on what to do" then go "wait there's no committee system" as well, I don't want to keep saying it but you must acknowledge the power structure that's there, and find a way to get it to work for you, instead of denying it's presence
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     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Jul-2022 09:00:32 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • :cacodemon_fast_spin:
     • :sprout: evil mental tofu haver
     @FloatingGhost @fristi @dielan newroma only "failed" because of miscommunication within pleroma-dev, which was resolved by yours truly and essentially bringing everyone back together, alleviating the very need and basis for newroma. I guess you didn't get the memo or something.
     
     >but the pleroma committee system failed to get the project anywhere
     
     what committee system? what failure? we keep on developing but slowly, and not because we stuck bikeshedding but mostly because we don't have enough people maintaining the project. People get burned out, especially when there's shit brewing.
     
     >and i've got a not insignificant number of PRs merged, just for the record
     
     then what's the problem? You have 14 MRs merged and 4 closed in BE, 1 merged and 1 closed in FE.
     
     I really, truly don't understand - we merge your MRs, we're open to discussion, our direction is flexible enough, we can work together, but you just prefer to act like you're better than us and refuse to contribute upstream.
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     :sprout: evil mental tofu haver (floatingghost@ihatebeinga.live)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Jul-2022 09:00:33 JST :sprout: evil mental tofu haver

     in reply to

     • :cacodemon_fast_spin:
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
     @hj @fristi @dielan >contribute a tiny bit some time ago
     you're only digging yourself a deeper hole here
     i was right at the forefront of newroma, tried to work with you lot but the pleroma committee system failed to get the project anywhere
     and i've got a not insignificant number of PRs merged, just for the record
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     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Jul-2022 09:00:35 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • :cacodemon_fast_spin:
     • :sprout: evil mental tofu haver
     @fristi @FloatingGhost @dielan I don't understand still. What decision making? What constrains? In pleroma everyone decides for themselves but we have to work together and coexist. You can always have your own fork or branch with your own changes but normally people try to contribute at least something upstream.
     
     From my perspective what floaty is doing is: contribute a tiny bit some time ago, do a hard fork because didn't like the direction Pleroma is going, act like Akkoma is the new upstream and Pleroma is outdated and dead.
     
     >Would you blame me if I said I didn't want to invest time in a project that looked like a dead fish on dry land to me?
     
     Isn't that's what floaty doing here? What is your point?
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     「 Fried Fristi 」 (fristi@akkos.fritu.re)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Jul-2022 09:00:36 JST 「 Fried Fristi 」

     in reply to

     • :cacodemon_fast_spin:
     • :sprout: evil mental tofu haver
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
     @hj @FloatingGhost @dielan It doesn't have to be like that. But both sides will have to learn to respect each other's decision making. And that's currently where the big crack is, and I doubt that crack will ever be mended.
     
     But that doesn't have to be a problem. Floaty managed to do what she did because she was not constrained to pleroma's internal decision making. But Pleroma can pull in those changes as well. For free. Because GPL. As such, even if Floaty breaks off and does her own thing, it doesn't have to be a massive issue or anything. Perhaps this model of forking off might prove beneficial, if you decide to work with it.
     
     And if Akkoma somehow "wins" so to speak, well, maybe that would say something about the pleroma project being misguided. Frankly I currently do not know what the state of the project is, who is leading it and what the end-goals currently are. Would you blame me if I said I didn't want to invest time in a project that looked like a dead fish on dry land to me?
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     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Jul-2022 09:00:38 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • :cacodemon_fast_spin:
     • :sprout: evil mental tofu haver
     @fristi @FloatingGhost @dielan i just feel we'll end up with situation where Akkoma's BE will be overdeveloped with FE being underdeveloped while on Pleroma side it will be quite the opposite, and given Pleroma's being understaffed especially on BE side I feel it would be mutually beneficial to both of us - floaty can see pleroma's heading closer to their desired destination, we could see pleroma being developed more and possibly faster.
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     「 Fried Fristi 」 (fristi@akkos.fritu.re)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Jul-2022 09:00:40 JST 「 Fried Fristi 」

     in reply to

     • :cacodemon_fast_spin:
     • :sprout: evil mental tofu haver
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
     @dielan @FloatingGhost @hj > Still gaslighting tho
     
     tbh the gaslighting is on both sides. Frankly the constant passive aggressive bumps back and forth aren't doing anyone good. While I can understand doing so out of frustration, it's not helping anything.
     
     Frankly I think everyone can better stick to their own projects for now. If the Pleroma devs want to take something back from the Akkoma project, they can do so themselves at their own leisure, because that's what the fucking GPL is for. No interactions required. If they have no such desire, then don't. Akkoma will further deviate off and become it's own thing. And that's fine.
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     :sprout: evil mental tofu haver (floatingghost@ihatebeinga.live)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Jul-2022 09:00:41 JST :sprout: evil mental tofu haver

     in reply to

     • :cacodemon_fast_spin:
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
     @hj @fristi @dielan that was intentional
     
     essential flow of events were
     - private post about how the longest standing bug in pleroma has a fix and nothing has been done
     - lanodan saying "why is it passive-aggressive" (which admittedly it is a tad, but nothing extreme)
     - me responding with "why should i be 100% civil given hj, your ostentible maintainer's subposts calling me dumb and then trying to get me 'on board'"
     - landodan equating this to me "burning bridges" and such
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     :cacodemon_fast_spin: (dielan@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Jul-2022 09:00:41 JST :cacodemon_fast_spin:

     in reply to

     • :sprout: evil mental tofu haver
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
     @FloatingGhost
     I'll admit I didn't pay attention to the scopes on the posts, thats my bad
     
     Still gaslighting tho
     
     @fristi @hj
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     :cacodemon_fast_spin: (dielan@shitposter.world)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Jul-2022 09:02:39 JST :cacodemon_fast_spin:

     in reply to

     • :sprout: evil mental tofu haver
     • narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
     @hj dont bother lol
     
     
     @fristi @FloatingGhost
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     narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag: (hj@shigusegubu.club)'s status on Tuesday, 26-Jul-2022 09:02:42 JST narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:

     in reply to

     • :cacodemon_fast_spin:
     • :sprout: evil mental tofu haver
     @dielan @fristi @FloatingGhost yeah i probably shouldn't trying to get floaty on board is a lost cause, at least for now.
     ​:hyperfastparrot:​ nekobit ​:cat_sui_2:​ likes this.