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Scott Barolo (sbarolo@zirk.us)'s status on Thursday, 15-Dec-2022 04:58:37 JST Scott Barolo
- shrewshrew
Re-posting this ? thread from 2018 which, sadly, is still relevant:
#WomenInSTEM who talk about #harassment and sexual misconduct get a lot of antagonistic & unhelpful replies.
@shrewshrew and I (a woman & a man in science) tried to categorize them. #9ReplyGuys
THE NINE TYPES OF REPLY GUYS ?
#1: THE LIFE COACH
In conversation Thursday, 15-Dec-2022 04:58:37 JST from zirk.us permalink
Attachments
1. #1: The Life Coach I would have shouted "NO" and kicked his butt! It's easy! Dress more like a scientist & men won't be tempted Now you know that was a bad mentor/lab/dept. What a great learning experience for you Choose your battles. Tough it out, focus on the science and you'll be fine Why didn't you speak out at the time? You go girl! The future is female! Good luck with that aka Victim Blaming; Free Advice; You Got This Problem: Demands solutions from the victims Warning: You may also hear this from women What he should do: Stop replying, start listening By @sbarolo and @shrewshrew
  https://cdn.masto.host/zirkus/media_attachments/files/109/384/434/835/564/000/original/54567a91dea6b787.jpeg
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  Scott Barolo (sbarolo@zirk.us)'s status on Thursday, 15-Dec-2022 05:07:04 JST Scott Barolo
  in reply to
  - shrewshrew
  The idea behind #9ReplyGuys is that, if you wish, you can use the 9 images in the thread above to quickly categorize & dismiss sexist replies. Misogynists *hate* being called unoriginal.
  Thanks from me and @shrewshrew for your support, suggestions, boosts and encouragement ?
  In conversation Thursday, 15-Dec-2022 05:07:04 JST permalink
  Attachments
  1. The Nine Types of Reply Guys: A Chart by @shrewshrew and @sbarolo 1: LIFE COACH 2: TONE POLICE 3: GASLIGHTER 4: COOKIE MANSTER 5: HIMPATHY 6: SEA LION 7: MANSPLAINER 8: THE PRESTIGE 9: TROLLS, CREEPS & FOOLS
    https://cdn.masto.host/zirkus/media_attachments/files/109/399/629/635/284/566/original/865b9c543a6c2f7f.png
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  Scott Barolo (sbarolo@zirk.us)'s status on Thursday, 15-Dec-2022 05:07:06 JST Scott Barolo
  in reply to
  - shrewshrew
  #9ReplyGuys: a 2018 ? thread by @shrewshrew and me
  Reply Guy #9: TROLLS, CREEPS and FOOLS
  In conversation Thursday, 15-Dec-2022 05:07:06 JST permalink
  Attachments
  1. Your to ugly too sexualy harass Your so hot he couldn't help himself [Joking does the exact thing the woman is talking about] get it?? 9 [overt sexist racist queerphobic nonsense] When will your chart of WOMEN be released? You girls b*ch about someone complimenting your ass while our country is literally exploding. Typical Anvone who says l'm mansplaining is gaslighting. Anyone who says I'm gaslighting is sealioning The word "troll" has lost all meaning. I get called a troll on here 40 times a day I'm offended, you #@&$€#% AKA: [misspell his name--they hate that] Problem: Covert misogyny just wasn't enough Warning: Not as nice as he seems What He Should Do: Delete his account
    https://cdn.masto.host/zirkus/media_attachments/files/109/399/612/076/112/268/original/36b584147cd8ba60.jpeg
  aab and Aral Balkan repeated this.
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  Scott Barolo (sbarolo@zirk.us)'s status on Thursday, 15-Dec-2022 05:07:08 JST Scott Barolo
  in reply to
  - shrewshrew
  #9ReplyGuys: a 2018 ? thread by @shrewshrew and me
  Reply Guy #8: THE PRESTIGE
  In conversation Thursday, 15-Dec-2022 05:07:08 JST permalink
  Attachments
  1. Reply Guy #8: THE PRESTIGE But if we hold him accountable for his actions, his legacy of being given awards will be destroyed! He's essential to his field. He's a genius. I've never heard of YOU Any system that rewards me is by definition a meritocracy. If women want to get ahead they can buckle down and do way more work than me Great men can't be shackled by ethics Women love to rub their degrees in our faces-so tacky. A well-tailoree suit tells you all you need to know about my qualifications Dealing with sexism would distract from my important work. It doesn't affect me, and working on it won't impress other men Who's complaining? Oh, HER ? AKA: Great Man Syndrome; Look Here Miss; The D List Problem: Your colleagues want to impress him Warning: Your success won't change his mind What He Should Do: Stop replying, start listening Dismiss
    https://cdn.masto.host/zirkus/media_attachments/files/109/395/073/792/491/715/original/ddd0b738a756d9da.jpeg
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  Scott Barolo (sbarolo@zirk.us)'s status on Thursday, 15-Dec-2022 05:07:09 JST Scott Barolo
  in reply to
  
  I will post #9ReplyGuys #8 and #9 soon!
  In the meantime here’s one of the great moments in the history of #mansplaining: a man mansplains mansplaining on Twitter.
  (The original flowchart he’s trying to refute is by Kim Gordon.)
  In conversation Thursday, 15-Dec-2022 05:07:09 JST permalink
  Attachments
  1. David Whitley ® @mrdavidwhitley Possibly unpopular opinion re this chart you're all sharing: A lot of what gets branded as mansplaining is just men trying to share enthusiasm or make conversation, and should be treated as the well-meaning clumsiness it is. Flowchart diagram by Kim Gordon: “Am I mansplaining? Did she ask you to explain it? No. Yes. Not mansplaining. Yes; she said she did. Do you have more relevant experience? Yes, by a fair amount. About the same, or I'm not sure. Would most men with her education & experience already know this? Did you ask if she needed it explained? Yes. 1 did not ask. Yes; she said no. Probably mansplaining. She has more. She has more, and is a well known expert. Definitely mansplaining. Just stop talking now.”6:36 AM • 7/21/18
    https://cdn.masto.host/zirkus/media_attachments/files/109/394/174/691/599/263/original/183dd93f17cf2ea1.jpeg
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  Scott Barolo (sbarolo@zirk.us)'s status on Thursday, 15-Dec-2022 05:07:10 JST Scott Barolo
  in reply to
  - shrewshrew
  #9ReplyGuys: a 2018 ? thread by @shrewshrew and me
  Reply Guy #7: THE MANSPLAINER
  (no shortage of these on Mastodon)
  In conversation Thursday, 15-Dec-2022 05:07:10 JST permalink
  Attachments
  1. #7: The Mansplainer A good resource: Rebecca Solnit, "Men Explain Things to Me" (essay 2008, book 2014). Ah, I see you are interested in X, [person who has studied X for 20 years]! I have researched it all morning and it's more complex than you'd think. For instance did you know… No, you didn't technically ask for advice, but a woman stating a fact is a cry for help. Your ideas were debunked years ago by a guy named... I think it starts with an F?Look it up, dummy. I notice you wear makeup. I thought you said you were a feminist. True feminism, you see [Is wrong for 5 tweets] There are many common misconceptions about what actually constitutes 'mansplaining'. I have something better than a degree in your field: a truly logical mind. Weep as I shatter your paradigms. aka Well Actually; You're Welcome; It Is Known Problem: He's just a soul whose intentions are good Warning: Oh lord, please don't let him be misunderstood What he should do: Stop replying, start listening
    https://cdn.masto.host/zirkus/media_attachments/files/109/393/576/070/834/915/original/b305227a7f7be3f9.jpeg
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  Scott Barolo (sbarolo@zirk.us)'s status on Thursday, 15-Dec-2022 05:07:11 JST Scott Barolo
  in reply to
  
  More about #sealioning: here’s that Wondermark comic by David Malki
  wondermark.com/1k62/
  In conversation Thursday, 15-Dec-2022 05:07:11 JST permalink
  Attachments
  1. Domain not in remote thumbnail source whitelist: wondermark.com
    
    #1062; The Terrible Sea Lion
    
    from @malki
    
    (Click to read the whole comic)
  2. WONDERMARK BY DAVID MALKI ! Woman: I DON'T MIND MOST MARINE MAMMALS. BUT SEA LIONS? I COULD DO WITHOUT SEA LIONS. Man: DON'T SAY THAT OUT LOUD! Sea Lion: PARDON ME, I COULDN'T HELP BUT OVERHEAR… Man: NOW YOU'VE DONE IT Sea Lion: I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE A CIVIL CONVERSATION ABOUT YOUR STATEMENT. WOULD YOU MIND SHOWING ME EVIDENCE OF ANY NEGATIVE THING ANY SEA LION HAS EVER DONE TO YOU? Woman: GO AWAY Sea Lion: THERE'S NO NEED TO RAISE YOUR VOICE. T'M RIGHT HERE. I'M JUST CURIOUS IF YOU HAVE ANY SOURCES TO BACK UP YOUR OPINION? Woman: YOU'RE IN MY HOUSE. Sea Lion: YOU MADE A STATEMENT IN Y PUBLIC FOR ALL TO HEAR. ARE YOU UNABLE TO DEFEND THE STATEMENTS YOU MAKE? OR SIMPLY UNWILLING TO HAVE A REASONED DISCUSSION? Man: TOLD YOU, DUDE. SEA LIONS. Sea Lion: I HAVE BEEN UNFAILINGLY POLITE, AND YOU TWO HAVE BEEN NOTHING BUT RUDE. Woman: I AM TRYING TO EAT BREAKFAST Sea Lion: VERY WELL. WE SHALL RESUME IN AN HOUR
    https://cdn.masto.host/zirkus/media_attachments/files/109/389/543/770/161/686/original/83b140a9af59e074.png
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  Scott Barolo (sbarolo@zirk.us)'s status on Thursday, 15-Dec-2022 05:07:12 JST Scott Barolo
  in reply to
  - shrewshrew
  #9ReplyGuys: a 2018 ? thread by @shrewshrew and me
  Reply Guy #6: THE SEA LION ?
  aka Just Asking Questions (JAQass)
  The term #sealioning was inspired by a 2014 Wondermark comic: wondermark.com/1k62/
  In conversation Thursday, 15-Dec-2022 05:07:12 JST permalink
  Attachments
  1. Domain not in remote thumbnail source whitelist: wondermark.com
    
    #1062; The Terrible Sea Lion
    
    from @malki
    
    (Click to read the whole comic)
  2. #6: Sea Lion #sealioning is derived from a 2014 comic by Wondermark: wondermark.com/1k62/ Would you answer my endless bad-faith questions, which I could easily google on my own, with a little less attitude please? If you don't respond to me, you're admitting I'm right. If you DO respond to me, this never ends. Pics or it didn't happen. Statistics or it didn't happen. Your testimony is unreliable solely because you are female. Why won't you repeat all the details of your painful harassment story on demand and post all the evidence? Is there even evidence that harassment exists? I mean numbers, not some ANECDOTE. The burden is on you to waste time disproving my wlld unsupported claims. Then I'II deny I ever said it. Ready? aka Just Asking Questions (JAQass), Data Dude Problem: Data won't convince him anyway Warning: Only wants to exhaust you & get the last word What he should do: Stop replying, start listening
    https://cdn.masto.host/zirkus/media_attachments/files/109/389/514/568/558/502/original/92b03f8058b1f59d.jpeg
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  Scott Barolo (sbarolo@zirk.us)'s status on Thursday, 15-Dec-2022 05:07:13 JST Scott Barolo
  in reply to
  - shrewshrew
  #9ReplyGuys: a 2018 ? thread by @shrewshrew and me
  Reply Guy #5: HIMPATHY
  (term coined by Kate Manne)
  In conversation Thursday, 15-Dec-2022 05:07:13 JST permalink
  Attachments
  1. #5: Himpathy “...the flow of sympathy away from female victims toward their male victimizers--which I call 'himpathy'." @kate manne, Down Girl: The Logic of Misogyny (2017) Too many profs are being fired due to unsubstantiated rumors with no due process!! No I can't NAME any. If we start holding men responsible for their actions, where will it end? She's just claiming harassment to get ahead, and he is suffering for it. We can't start protecting women until you can prove that nothing bad will ever happen to a man EVER. I'm afraid to work with women now :( He is really going through a lot, the rules are changing, it's hard out there. Censorship! Why can't I say whatever comes into my mind while everyone walks on eggshells around me. If you keep this up, men will stop hitting on women at work and the human race will go extinct. aka Witch Hunt, Whatabout, Oh the huMANity. Problem: Only men are real to him. Warning: Dangerous when cornered. What he should do: Stop replying, start listening
    https://cdn.masto.host/zirkus/media_attachments/files/109/389/065/067/466/432/original/52d26b2715cc5c89.jpeg
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  Scott Barolo (sbarolo@zirk.us)'s status on Thursday, 15-Dec-2022 05:07:14 JST Scott Barolo
  in reply to
  - shrewshrew
  If you mention #9ReplyGuys elsewhere please cite @shrewshrew, my 50/50 writing partner on this project (which probably means she did way more than half and I didn’t notice)
  
  In conversation Thursday, 15-Dec-2022 05:07:14 JST permalink
- Embed this notice
  Scott Barolo (sbarolo@zirk.us)'s status on Thursday, 15-Dec-2022 05:07:15 JST Scott Barolo
  in reply to
  - shrewshrew
  #9ReplyGuys: a 2018 ? thread by @shrewshrew and me
  Reply Guy #4: THE COOKIE MANSTER
  In conversation Thursday, 15-Dec-2022 05:07:15 JST permalink
  Attachments
  1. #4: Cookie Manster I haven't harassed women to my knowledge, where's my lifetime achievement award? Not all men do bad things! My gf says I'm amazing. In faculty meeting somebody made a sexist remark & I thought to myself "that is so messed up". Hey did you see we gave a woman an award? Yeah it feels pretty good to do charity. Some workplaces have problems with sexism but my mentees and I are BFFs #coolboss If I am pro-women how could my behavior ever be sexist? CHECKMATE I am interested in being an ally! Someone give me permission please. aka #notallmen; | Love Women; Mommy Look! Problem: It's not about you, buddy Warning: All talk, no action What he should do: Stop replying, start listening
    https://cdn.masto.host/zirkus/media_attachments/files/109/387/850/538/634/253/original/9e3a28e2d64ef3d2.jpeg
- Embed this notice
  Scott Barolo (sbarolo@zirk.us)'s status on Thursday, 15-Dec-2022 05:07:16 JST Scott Barolo
  in reply to
  - shrewshrew
  #9ReplyGuys: a 2018 twitter thread by me and @shrewshrew
  Reply Guy #3: THE GASLIGHTER
  In conversation Thursday, 15-Dec-2022 05:07:16 JST permalink
  Attachments
  1. #3: The Gaslighter Something similar happened to a man once, therefore you didn't experience sexism. His INTENTIONS were good. It's a compliment. He never assaulted women in front of me! I need to know the exact context or I'II assume you've blown this out of proportion. He's just an old-school gentleman from a different culture with a hands-on mentoring style. Sexism is just an old man problem. When they all retire everything will be better! If sexism was *that* common I would have noticed. And by the way, she's no saint either. aka The Male Interpreter; Manecdotes; Walk It Off. Problem: It's not that bad. And if it is, you deserve it. Warning: He's already decided to ignore your response. What he should do: Stop replying, start listening
    https://cdn.masto.host/zirkus/media_attachments/files/109/384/484/277/416/298/original/8593147feaead9d8.jpeg
- Embed this notice
  Scott Barolo (sbarolo@zirk.us)'s status on Thursday, 15-Dec-2022 05:07:17 JST Scott Barolo
  in reply to
  - shrewshrew
  #9ReplyGuys: a 2018 twitter thread by me and @shrewshrew
  Reply Guy #2: THE TONE POLICE
  In conversation Thursday, 15-Dec-2022 05:07:17 JST permalink
  Attachments
  1. #2: The Tone Police How rude! Now we must postpone all discussion of your experiences until you can make me feel comfortable. You seem upset. Perhaps you aren't able to handle rational discourse. If you get angry, they win. The mouth on you! No wonder u got harassed. Name calling is hardly productive, madam. Piling on this guy isn't helpful. I bet he learned his lesson and was probably misunderstood. Such nasty vitriol! All I did was calmly point out that women are irrational & unfit to do science. aka Civility Patrol; Oh My Delicate Male Ears Problem: Male comfort is priority #1 Warning: Will call you a b**** eventually What he should do: Stop replying, start listening
    https://cdn.masto.host/zirkus/media_attachments/files/109/384/469/124/610/898/original/8c7b62c6c970b28e.jpeg
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  Scott Barolo (sbarolo@zirk.us)'s status on Tuesday, 22-Aug-2023 22:07:28 JST Scott Barolo
  in reply to
  
  Honestly a lot of the people on here need to learn basic reply etiquette. Mastodon is becoming known as the home of the smug mansplaining tone-policing reply.
  A lot of white people feel way too comfortable here and post our unexamined unfiltered reactions without considering how annoying and exclusionary we’re being.
  If you’re typing something “helpful” and the person you’re replying to didn’t ask for help or doesn’t follow you, the most helpful thing you can do is hit Cancel and move on.
  
  In conversation Tuesday, 22-Aug-2023 22:07:28 JST permalink
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  Scott Barolo (sbarolo@zirk.us)'s status on Tuesday, 22-Aug-2023 22:07:29 JST Scott Barolo
  in reply to
  
  [note: if you want to see more details about each of these guys, with a graphic showing examples of each type of response, scroll up in the thread! 👆]
  
  In conversation Tuesday, 22-Aug-2023 22:07:29 JST permalink
  
  novatorine 🏴🏳️‍⚧️, AnthonyJK-Admin and Aral Balkan repeated this.
- Embed this notice
  Scott Barolo (sbarolo@zirk.us)'s status on Friday, 25-Aug-2023 14:34:20 JST Scott Barolo
  in reply to
  
  it might possibly say something about Mastodon that in the entire #9ReplyGuys thread above (concerning misogyny) there was not a single negative reply, but as soon as obnoxious behavior from white people is mentioned, suddenly feelings got hurt
  
  In conversation Friday, 25-Aug-2023 14:34:20 JST permalink
  
  Aral Balkan repeated this.
- Embed this notice
  Scott Barolo (sbarolo@zirk.us)'s status on Friday, 25-Aug-2023 14:34:21 JST Scott Barolo
  in reply to
  
  ooh, this one touched a nerve. you’re calling yourselves out in the replies, defending your god given right to be annoying creeps lmao
  
  In conversation Friday, 25-Aug-2023 14:34:21 JST permalink
  
  Aral Balkan repeated this.
- Embed this notice
  Scott Barolo (sbarolo@zirk.us)'s status on Friday, 25-Aug-2023 14:36:10 JST Scott Barolo
  in reply to
  
  so it may be worth mentioning that ALL of the toxic reactions described in the #9ReplyGuys thread above are used by white people (including WW) against people of color all the time, especially against Black people who talk about racism. None of it is exclusive to gender harassment/discrimination.
  Mastodon can be a safe place for everybody, or it can be a comfortable place for white people, but while #racism exists it can’t be both.
  
  In conversation Friday, 25-Aug-2023 14:36:10 JST permalink
- Embed this notice
  Aral Balkan (aral@mastodon.ar.al)'s status on Friday, 25-Aug-2023 16:01:16 JST Aral Balkan
  in reply to
  - Agent Smitux
  @khw @sbarolo *sigh*
  
  In conversation Friday, 25-Aug-2023 16:01:16 JST permalink
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  Agent Smitux (khw@social.linux.pizza)'s status on Friday, 25-Aug-2023 16:01:23 JST Agent Smitux
  in reply to
  - Aral Balkan
  @sbarolo
  So no Interactions wanted?
  @aral
  
  In conversation Friday, 25-Aug-2023 16:01:23 JST permalink

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