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   nash's schizo daughter :ancapchanlol: (7@collapsitarian.io)'s status on Thursday, 18-Aug-2022 06:24:07 JST nash's schizo daughter :ancapchanlol:

   • pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist:

   @p I have started setting up the first machine in my cluster, with 9front. I’m trying to make it serve auth/cpu and files for the time being, with middling success. I am not running service=cpu because when I do that I lose access to terminal and can’t edit the plan9.ini again, either because 9fat doesn’t exist from the drawterm’s perspective on another machine, or because I can’t get rio to start on the machine itself.

   The workaround i’m using is echo 'key proto=dp9ik user=glenda !password=password' > /mnt/factotum/ctl; aux/listen1 -t 'tcp!*!rcpu' /rc/bin/service/tcp17019 to have access to the machine via drawterm, but I can’t work out why I can’t access the 9fat on the machine itself when connected via drawterm. Would you have any idea?

   • Embed this notice
     pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist: (p@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Thursday, 18-Aug-2022 21:52:55 JST pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist:

     in reply to
     @7
     
     > I have started setting up the first machine in my cluster
     
     NICE
     
     > when I do that I lose access to terminal and can’t edit the plan9.ini again
     
     What does `9fs 9fat` say? Can you see the device anywhere in /dev?
     
     Typically what you do for CPU servers is PXE them, so the plan9.ini comes from the PXE files on the fileserver. So by default, cpu(1) and drawterm access don't provide disk services, those are usually diskless. There are a handful of things designed to only be available with physical access (which means VNC if you're running it in a VM or something); ANTS gives you this on port 17060 (the ramdisk-embedded-in-kernel environment, which is why you have to do `rerootwin -f boot` to get to the regular environment from there), so you can drawterm in.
     
     (The punchline is `bind '#S' /dev`. See `man sd`, `cat /dev/drivers`.)
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     nash's schizo daughter :ancapchanlol: (7@collapsitarian.io)'s status on Thursday, 18-Aug-2022 22:03:08 JST nash's schizo daughter :ancapchanlol:

     in reply to

     • pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist:
     @p > So by default, cpu(1) and drawterm access don't provide disk services, those are usually diskless.
     
     I almost understand this. Like, I get that my drawterm session _isn't_ necessarily an SSH or VNC session; I'm not on that machine, I'm on a drawterm using that machine for a cpu. `9fs 9fat` says "no 9fat partition found", which leads me to believe I haven't mounted something from the device over my /dev? But I haven't worked out what the #A #S #S #H #O #L #E things are yet... still dumb
     
     > (The punchline is `bind '#S' /dev`. See `man sd`, `cat /dev/drivers`.)
     
     This is a fuckton of information compressed into a parenthetical, I will get back to you when I understand #S and have read the latter two.
   • Embed this notice
     nash's schizo daughter :ancapchanlol: (7@collapsitarian.io)'s status on Thursday, 18-Aug-2022 22:19:08 JST nash's schizo daughter :ancapchanlol:

     in reply to

     • pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist:
     @p AAAAAAA FUCK FUCK THANK YOU HOLY SHIT
     
     `bind -a '#S' /dev` binds all the storage devices to my session; if I wanted to be specific about it I could use `bind -a '#SsdE0' /dev` (and I'm using -a because I tried without it and lost all the devices already mounted for that session)
   • Embed this notice
     pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist: (p@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Thursday, 18-Aug-2022 23:09:36 JST pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist:

     in reply to
     @7 Ah, right, yes. -a or -b.
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     pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist: (p@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Thursday, 18-Aug-2022 23:10:10 JST pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist:

     in reply to
     @7
     
     > This is a fuckton of information compressed into a parenthetical
     
     It's actually simpler than it looks. /dev/drivers lists the available drivers. The '#devices' are the system services outside the namespace. If you look at the output of `ns`, you'll see a list of drivers, you'll see things like drawterm providing virtual devices that get bound over /dev. If you wanted to, you could just write something that resembles a device and then mount that over your /dev. A trivial case, you can freeze time with a one-liner without even writing a 9P server:
     
     cat /dev/time > /tmp/eternal-now && bind /tmp/eternal-now /dev/time
     
     Cool, huh?
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     nash's schizo daughter :ancapchanlol: (7@collapsitarian.io)'s status on Thursday, 18-Aug-2022 23:12:14 JST nash's schizo daughter :ancapchanlol:

     in reply to

     • pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist:
     @p
     
     Dude.
     
     DUDE.
     
     WHAT THE FUCK.
     
     THAT IS FUCKING AWESOME AND ALSO SOMEWHAT TERRIFYING FOR THE IMPLICATIONS
     
     COOL DOES NOT BEGIN TO DESCRIBE IT
     
     > If you look at the output of `ns`, you'll see a list of drivers, you'll see things like drawterm providing virtual devices that get bound over /dev.
     
     Thank you for reading my mind, this was one of the next questions cooking; I didn't know how to look at what was mounted where. I still haven't "gotten into" namespaces yet but thank you so much for pointing this out; I can now check if I forgot to mount /sys/lib/go/amd64-1.19/bin!
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     nash's schizo daughter :ancapchanlol: (7@collapsitarian.io)'s status on Thursday, 18-Aug-2022 23:42:54 JST nash's schizo daughter :ancapchanlol:

     in reply to

     • pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist:
     @p
     
     > you can do it with `cat /proc/$pid/ns`
     
     I love seeing beneath the magic _so much_, you have no idea. Thank you far all this, it's clarifying in a way that no amount of searching has been.
     
     > `man -P ns`
     
     Oh that's sexy.
     
   • Embed this notice
     pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist: (p@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Thursday, 18-Aug-2022 23:42:55 JST pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist:

     in reply to
     @7 :bigbosssalute:
     
     There's a learning curve and a lot of it is because it was home-grown and you could just ask someone in the office if you were confused about anything; you can see how often the man pages reference individual machines (like bootes or emilie). But once you've calibrated and you more or less know what to expect, everything starts to click really quickly.
     
     Here's something fun: ns(1) is bloat, you can do it with `cat /proc/$pid/ns` to see the current process's namespace, and this of course works for any pid. ANTS has a kernel patch that makes that file *writable* (and tooling like `cpns` that makes it possible to clone namespaces across boundaries).
     
     Also, for a good time, make your rio window big enough and try `man -P ns` instead of just `man ns`.
   • Embed this notice
      (mint@ryona.agency)'s status on Friday, 19-Aug-2022 00:15:12 JST 

     in reply to

     • pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist:
     @p @7 man sounds like a bloat as well. Why not just cat the manpage?
   • Embed this notice
     pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist: (p@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Friday, 19-Aug-2022 01:49:40 JST pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist:

     in reply to
     @7
     
     > I love seeing beneath the magic _so much_
     
     It's nice when you find out that it's not even really magic.
     
     > it's clarifying in a way that no amount of searching has been.
     
     That's why I say it's better to try to get it running and then play with it, the system gets visible.
     
     > Oh that's sexy.
     
     Yeah, the troff files are intended to be typeset, you see a lot of stuff that doesn't even come through unless you print it, but since page is part of the OS and the GUI is integrated, you can just view the printable version. Inferno's man page browser is even nicer; names get converted to clickable links.
     
     Here's something fun, though: open up sam or acme and then in a different window, type 'src clock'.
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     nash's schizo daughter :ancapchanlol: (7@collapsitarian.io)'s status on Friday, 19-Aug-2022 01:50:09 JST nash's schizo daughter :ancapchanlol:

     in reply to

     • pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist:
     @p Wait, what? Why? How? Plumber? WORDS
     
   • Embed this notice
     pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist: (p@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Friday, 19-Aug-2022 01:50:29 JST pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist:

     in reply to

     • 
     @mint @7 Seems a bit less readable:
     
     .TH CAT 1
     .SH NAME
     cat, read \- catenate files
     .SH SYNOPSIS
     .B cat
     [
     .I file ...
     ]
     .br
     .B read
     [
     .B -m
     ] [
     .B -n
     .I nlines
     ] [
     .B -c
     .I nbytes
     ] [
     .I file ...
     ]
     .SH DESCRIPTION
     .I Cat
     reads each
     .I file
     in sequence and writes it on the standard output.
     Thus
     .IP
     .L
     cat file
     .LP
     prints a file and
     .IP
     .L
     cat file1 file2 >file3
     .LP
     concatenates the first two files and places the result
     on the third.
     .PP
     If no
     .I file
     is given,
     .I cat
     reads from the standard input.
     Output is buffered in blocks matching the input.
     .PP
     .I Read
     copies to standard output exactly one line from the named
     .IR file ,
     default standard input.
     It is useful in interactive
     .IR rc (1)
     scripts.
     .PP
     The
     .B -m
     flag causes it to continue reading and writing multiple lines until end of file;
     .B -n
     causes it to read no more than
     .I nlines
     lines.
     .PP
     With the
     .B -c
     flag,
     .I read
     copies exactly
     .I nbytes
     of characters instead of lines. It is mutually exclusive with
     .B -n
     and
     .B -m
     flag.
     .PP
     .I Read
     always executes a single
     .B write
     for each line of input, which can be helpful when
     preparing input to programs that expect line-at-a-time data.
     It never reads any more data from the input than it prints to the output.
     .SH SOURCE
     .B /sys/src/cmd/cat.c
     .br
     .B /sys/src/cmd/read.c
     .SH SEE ALSO
     .IR cp (1)
     .SH DIAGNOSTICS
     .I Read
     exits with status
     .B eof
     on end of file or, in the
     .B -n
     case, if it doesn't read
     .I nlines
     lines.
     .SH BUGS
     Beware of
     .L "cat a b >a"
     and
     .LR "cat a b >b" ,
     which
     destroy input files before reading them.
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     nash's schizo daughter :ancapchanlol: (7@collapsitarian.io)'s status on Friday, 19-Aug-2022 01:53:16 JST nash's schizo daughter :ancapchanlol:

     in reply to

     • pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist:
     @p < src src
     
     I'm starting to see some of the things you were saying before.
     
   • Embed this notice
     pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist: (p@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Friday, 19-Aug-2022 02:40:07 JST pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist:

     in reply to
     @7 You can find out how by just typing `src src`. :bwk:
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     nash's schizo daughter :ancapchanlol: (7@collapsitarian.io)'s status on Friday, 19-Aug-2022 09:19:27 JST nash's schizo daughter :ancapchanlol:

     in reply to

     • pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist:
     @p Work took up most of my attention for a while but then I took what I learned and applied it to the original problem, and I can now say with joy that I have disconnected the monitor and keyboard and mouse from the device and leave it headless. Thank you again.
   • Embed this notice
     pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist: (p@freespeechextremist.com)'s status on Saturday, 20-Aug-2022 03:53:24 JST pistolero :thispersondoesnotexist:

     in reply to
     @7 :bigbosssalute:
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