Leah Rowe is not a Rowebot
@april usually when lbmk breaks, it's not lbmk. it's gcc changing something, and i make a small patch to an upstream project or something. lbmk is 2800 lines of shell script, and i can reliably build libreboot on all of the major distros, on multiple versions of them. i cannot say the same for many other build systems.
nix-based projects end up having a higher maintenance burden, because now you are dealing with a lot more moving parts and its design is biased to upstreams (you're not upstream)
Leah Rowe is not a Rowebot
@april when i add new codebases to lbmk, i very often do not need to modify lbmk at all. often all i need to do is specify an upstream, a revision, and maybe add some patches.
now grep for "mkhelper", "premake" and "postmake" in those files. project-specific logic can use these, when a given project teeds custom logic, alongside the generic build logic.
lbmk can build anything. i could probably bootstrap a full linux distro with it, if i were insane enough.
Leah Rowe is not a Rowebot
@april if you look at the design of lbmk, everything is completely generalised. you will find very little project-specific logic in the libreboot build system whatsoever. e.g. look at include/tree.sh - this builds grub, seabios, coreboot, grub, various utils, and even u-boot. it could even build a linux kernel, with zero code changes, you just need to add a config - it natively supports scons as a build system, and knows how to operate it fluently.
Leah Rowe is not a Rowebot
@april when i add new codebases to lbmk, i very often do not need to modify lbmk at all. often all i need to do is specify an upstream, a revision, and maybe add some patches.
now grep for "mkhelper", "premake" and "postmake" in those files. project-specific logic can use these, when a given project needs custom logic, alongside the generic build logic.
lbmk can build anything. i could probably bootstrap a full linux distro with it, if i were insane enough.
Leah Rowe is not a Rowebot
@april the reason people use stuff like nix is the same as e.g. containers. they want to ensure a specific environment, with sane versioning and so on. this mitigates breakages too, like if you have a legacy codebase that needs to compile on old gcc or something. but you're just delaying the pain. and you end up adding technical debt, and suddenly you're running millions of lines of code.
Leah Rowe is not a Rowebot
@april me?
i maintain kgpe-d16 support in libreboot for example. no container, no nothing. i patch it to build on modern distros without containment. who needs that bloat?
and i'm not scared to modify a decade-old version of gcc e.g. gcc 8.3 as used in coreboot 4.11 (which kgpe-d16 currently uses, in libreboot)
Leah Rowe is not a Rowebot
@april me?
i maintain kgpe-d16 support in libreboot for example. no container, no nothing. i patch it to build on modern distros without containment. who needs that bloat?
and i'm not scared to modify a decade-old version of gcc e.g. gcc 8.3 as used in coreboot 4.11 (which kgpe-d16 currently uses, in libreboot)
that's coreboot from 2019 btw. you have no idea the lengths i go to make that build. i could have used docker. lots of other coreboot distros use docker and nix.
libreboot stays pure.
Leah Rowe is not a Rowebot
@noisytoot @april the rest of my arguments against its existence and efficacy shall remain.
Noisytoot
Leah Rowe is not a Rowebot
@april when you use something like docker/nix, docker/nix itself becomes a liability, and now you're maintaining *that*. i see projects using it always patching themselves for changes make upstream to those systems. and they don't fix anything. all you're doing is emulating a bitrotting version of $whatever, forever.
Leah Rowe is not a Rowebot
@april and docker/nix are very much linux-centric. i want my shit to run on bsd.
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