Conversation

Notices

1. Embed this notice
   georgia (georgia@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Thursday, 26-Mar-2026 12:26:35 JST georgia
   vedic religion was patriarchal but there were some really great female sages seers and yoginis. and the entire sect of shaktism is all about the Devi. so I still believe hinduism can be an antidote to patriarchal religion. and marian catholicism too to an extent.
   • Embed this notice
     Lizzie (lizzie@brain.worm.pink)'s status on Thursday, 26-Mar-2026 14:41:05 JST Lizzie

     in reply to

     @georgia christianity as i experience it is in a bit of an interesting spot since we avoid some of the issues (i mean we now have a woman in the see of canterbury/primus inter pares of the communion and even the conservatives across largely like her). a close friend of the communion, the church of sweden has a straight up majority of women as clergy.

     but obviously thats not erased patriarchy. its improvement to the point that we broadly realize women are no less an image if christ. a lot of east african anglicans want to bring back stoning gays but are fine with women as bishops.

     and there are some things entrenched. its ‘our father in heaven’ and not ‘our mother in heaven’ as c s lewis’s cope argument against women’s ordination eagerly recalls. mary is our most treasured saint and, as my bishop argues, the most fundamental example of what it means to be christian (which has massively shaped how i think about a lot of things).

     but we are a protestant church. we broadly do not hold her in the same esteem as our roman friends. the highest mariology actually comes from the christian east in the form of sophiology but idk much about sophiology and its not mainstream in anycase.

     now gender and christianity does get a little weird since nobody serious is going to say that maleness somehow lies in the divine nature nor does it lie in the particular hypostases of the trinity (one of whom is often given the grammatical feminine). Jesus Himself gave birth as many icons understood the clear implications of the water from His body. maximus argues that sexual differentiation itself was against God’s design and ive seen maximians argued that the rift is closed in Christ (though only in principle before He returns)

     and while jesus kept many women close to him and sent some out among the 70 apostles in luke, the 12 were all men. (well mostly. the apostle who rested at jesus’s bosom was often associated with a third gender in medieval thought bc of his associations with certain prayer practices).

     many early transmasculine saints came to be venerated though transfeminine ones died in obscurity.

     some might argue that the whole system of holy orders inherently represents a patriarchal sort of authority, and i can kinda see it but i ignore it bc everyone more protestant than me is scary. i will say that i think that many wrongly perceive of the role of bishop. i do think the conception that runs core to the infallible papacy leaves behind the kenotic inverted kingship of Christ.

     all of this is disconnected and disorganized but this is genuinely the kinda stuff that bounces around in my head all day. i don’t really move from christianity bc if i converted to another religion i would be extremely christian about it and my sisters who build individual syncretic belief systems seem a little untethered imo.

     georgia likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     georgia (georgia@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Thursday, 26-Mar-2026 14:52:08 JST georgia

     in reply to

     • Lizzie
     @lizzie thank you for the detailed response :) you really put love into it and it shows. I think your regard for the papacy as being in opposition to the "kenotic inverted kingship" of Christ is quite keen (although wont He be a very literal king when He returns?), I feel like theres been some progress in that general front of at least being in accordance with Christ's humility by eschewing some of the past pageantry of popery but the very concept of the pope as being an infallible steward of the church is an impudent device. I have no love for the pope as a person or an institution, my regard for the catholic church is mostly for its saints which imo show that it is in communion with God who actively dispenses charisms and revelation through it still, more I'd argue than any other church, but I could just be ignorant! thus I really think that if God wanted to repair Christianity He would do it through the Roman Catholic Church. as far as sophiology is concerned, I thought that was confined to christian gnosticism? I'm not a fan of the wisdom cults although this might be hypocritical with my regard for the upanishads which were originally secret teachings.
   • Embed this notice
     Lizzie (lizzie@brain.worm.pink)'s status on Thursday, 26-Mar-2026 15:05:24 JST Lizzie

     in reply to

     @georgia oh gnostics do have a concept of sophia for sure but it is distinctly different from the orthodox concept. its an attempt to affirm created existence if anything.

     i dont think the cross as coronation is an inversion of earthly kinghood so that Jesus can return as a normal king later. i think the crucifixion is as much the hight of glory as the resurrection. as those who use the language would say, divinization is being crucified alongside christ. i dont think the second coming is fundamentally different. i think it’s the restoration that has intruded into the world made total.

     georgia likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     georgia (georgia@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Thursday, 26-Mar-2026 15:13:53 JST georgia

     in reply to

     • Lizzie
     @lizzie oh apparently sophiology is part of the source for meditations on the tarot, I have that book! I was kinda hoping it would be more roman catholic because I bought it for a roman catholic but I'm sure shell get enough out of it still
   • Embed this notice
     Lizzie (lizzie@brain.worm.pink)'s status on Thursday, 26-Mar-2026 15:17:32 JST Lizzie

     in reply to

     • Lizzie

     @georgia actually that kinda works and i didnt need to edit it

     georgia likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Lizzie (lizzie@brain.worm.pink)'s status on Thursday, 26-Mar-2026 15:17:33 JST Lizzie

     in reply to

     • Lizzie

     @georgia oops i dropped “pf theosis” somehow making it “as those who use the language would say”

     georgia likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     georgia (georgia@netzsphaere.xyz)'s status on Thursday, 26-Mar-2026 15:19:35 JST georgia

     in reply to

     • Lizzie
     @lizzie yeah I didnt bat an eye at that lol