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   ​:hyperfastparrot:​ nekobit ​:cat_sui_2:​ (neko@rdrama.cc)'s status on Sunday, 14-Aug-2022 14:03:39 JST ​:hyperfastparrot:​ nekobit ​:cat_sui_2:​
   https://codeberg.org/thatonecalculator/calckey/commit/2bf2eac76513ede93190503e4f52b6086292c7d4
   
   This shit is why I hate Misskey users, if a host is blocked it just sends a 403, so I just see people replying to absolutely nothing all over my timeline, just tagging the user but never replying and it's annoying as hell. This isn't really what Federation is about.
   • ぐぬ管 (GNU social JP管理人) likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     ew (e@masochi.st)'s status on Sunday, 14-Aug-2022 14:03:29 JST ew

     in reply to

     • Weeble
     @neko @Weeble that's easily solvable with side-channel federation, does bleroma not have that?
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     ​:hyperfastparrot:​ nekobit ​:cat_sui_2:​ (neko@rdrama.cc)'s status on Sunday, 14-Aug-2022 14:03:31 JST ​:hyperfastparrot:​ nekobit ​:cat_sui_2:​

     in reply to

     • Weeble

     @Weeble The idea of a defed is that they won’t really get stuff from the defedded instance, and said instance won’t “follow” your defedded instance, but it doesn’t really “stop interaction”. It’s saying Host A doesn’t want to see Host B at all nor follow it, but it won’t cuck Host B in attempts to see it’s content just to be an asshole.

     It makes federation harder in theory and even breaks it. Say, Host B simply wants to say their opinion on what Host A said without Host A having a single clue of what was said. This means Host C or Host D or Host E can pitch in to “your” reply, even if Host A is unaware of what’s happening.

     It doesn’t stop “bullying” either, anyone can screenshot Host A’s post. Of course, I can still view the replied status from Host C or even Host A directly (meaning, the content is public), it just introduces this little gap in federation.

     Yes, it is technically a “real block”, but a real block is against the idea of federation. All attempts to delete old posts on the Fediverse are theoretically impossible since instances can very simply reject status deletes. Federation is censorship resistant, if something gets censored or deleted, it’s never truly gone.

     To add, you might even ask “why do we have deletion requests in the first place if Fedi is about anti-censorship?”. As always, they can be ignored, but most instances accept rejects because rejects can be used in good faith to ban spam accounts, make post edits, etc.

     Sorry for the words words words :marseywords: post. At the end of the day it’s completely up to the instance and what they want to do, but it always leads me to ask why they are on the Fediverse to begin with.

   • Embed this notice
     Weeble (weeble@bungle.online)'s status on Sunday, 14-Aug-2022 14:03:34 JST Weeble

     in reply to

     @neko@rdrama.cc So Host A block Host B. User from host C replies to Host A but Host B only sees the host C reply and not Host A OP?
     
     If thats what you're saying then I dont see an issue. I assume that what ppl want from a defed

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     ​:hyperfastparrot:​ nekobit ​:cat_sui_2:​ (neko@rdrama.cc)'s status on Sunday, 14-Aug-2022 14:03:35 JST ​:hyperfastparrot:​ nekobit ​:cat_sui_2:​

     in reply to

     • Weeble
     @Weeble I should elaborate, it basically says "fuck you" to instances which an instance blocks. So when my instance attempts to fetch a reply (on a public instance btw), it rejects it and as a result, Pleroma will show a status of a person tagging someone but there will be no reply. The only way for me to see the reply is to see the source post.
   • Embed this notice
     ​:hyperfastparrot:​ nekobit ​:cat_sui_2:​ (neko@rdrama.cc)'s status on Sunday, 14-Aug-2022 14:03:37 JST ​:hyperfastparrot:​ nekobit ​:cat_sui_2:​

     in reply to

     • Weeble
     @Weeble I've explained it, it won't let you see who people are replying to, which means if you want to view that, you have to go to the person's instance so you _can_ see the status.
   • Embed this notice
     Weeble (weeble@bungle.online)'s status on Sunday, 14-Aug-2022 14:03:38 JST Weeble

     in reply to

     @neko@rdrama.cc I dont get it what's the problem?

   • Embed this notice
     ew (e@masochi.st)'s status on Sunday, 14-Aug-2022 14:06:47 JST ew

     in reply to

     • Weeble
     @neko @Weeble that's what header signing is for :thinky:
   • Embed this notice
     ​:hyperfastparrot:​ nekobit ​:cat_sui_2:​ (neko@rdrama.cc)'s status on Sunday, 14-Aug-2022 14:06:50 JST ​:hyperfastparrot:​ nekobit ​:cat_sui_2:​

     in reply to

     • ew
     • Weeble
     @e @Weeble No, Pleroma doesn't support side-channel federation I think. The issue with side-channel federation is that it's completely possible to alter what a person said this way, or introduce "junk statuses/spam", so Pleroma see's a reply and attempts to grab at the source reply.
   • Embed this notice
     ew (e@masochi.st)'s status on Sunday, 14-Aug-2022 14:09:04 JST ew

     in reply to

     • Weeble
     @neko @Weeble well you'd need a ledger, yeah. or you could use a reputation system and pull from multiple sources and then rate them, blacklist any you find that modify headers
   • Embed this notice
     ​:hyperfastparrot:​ nekobit ​:cat_sui_2:​ (neko@rdrama.cc)'s status on Sunday, 14-Aug-2022 14:09:06 JST ​:hyperfastparrot:​ nekobit ​:cat_sui_2:​

     in reply to

     • ew
     • Weeble
     @e @Weeble Yes, but can't that header be altered from the side-federation in the first place anyway?
   • Embed this notice
     ​:hyperfastparrot:​ nekobit ​:cat_sui_2:​ (neko@rdrama.cc)'s status on Sunday, 14-Aug-2022 14:19:47 JST ​:hyperfastparrot:​ nekobit ​:cat_sui_2:​

     in reply to

     • ew
     • Weeble
     @e @Weeble Again, anyone can alter that ledger. The reputation system does work but that's a _lot_ of pinging. Not every instance you federate with may contain X or Y status, and very likely only big instances may get that federation.
     
     At the end of the day this is overkill and unneccesary. The only case where side-federation could be useful is when an instance literally does not exist anymore, which also means that a status can be altered but it honestly doesn't matter at that point because the instance is dead
     ew likes this.
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     ​:hyperfastparrot:​ nekobit ​:cat_sui_2:​ (neko@rdrama.cc)'s status on Sunday, 14-Aug-2022 15:10:22 JST ​:hyperfastparrot:​ nekobit ​:cat_sui_2:​

     in reply to

     • Weeble
     @Weeble It's not an issue, there's not really a solution, it's an opinion and a rant.
     
     > Cuz what you'd rather basically talk to a wall? Stumble into a conversation that u were lucky to catch cuz a mutual replied to it?
     
     I like seeing what someone is replying to easily. I don't want to go to the other person's instance to see a reply. I enable replies in my main timeline because I enjoy seeing what people talk about or if something catches my eye, perhaps even reply guying occasionally
     
     > Yeah you can screenshot posts but that's even gayer than sending a reply you know OP won't hear
     
     Of course it's gayer but there's hypocrisy in the fact that you guys make fun of FediTips and sometimes even screenshot their posts. Screenshotting is what people do, imagine if FediTips made their own instance and just blocked everyone, you'd still make fun of them by directly going to the instance. Don't act like you're innocent over it.
     
     > Defederation itself is censorship so the better question would be why we have it in the first place.
     
     It's censorship from instance A's side, they want to censor specific pieces of information, just like how I want to censor the freakish pedophile instances. I'm not going to punish those freaks even if I really wanted to but I _definitely_ do not want to see their existence nor let my own users see them because I 100% know they don't like those people, or even have to think about them. (also legal stuff is why i block them too). Censorship is completely shutting down a voice from everyone else. It's only one sided though, anyone can "archive" or "screenshot" stuff to counter censorship
     
     > Personally I see the point of fedi as a place to control your presence and curate content, and not have your data and timeline be handled by AI algorithms.
     
     Fedi is just specs and shit, it's federation and nothing else. You're thinking of Neo-social media or whatever it is. Anyone can write Federation software that has AI algorithms. I personally wouldn't even mind if someone wrote a server that gave me an option to "view old/trending posts". You know how people necroboost and stuff? That kind of stuff, it's not necessary a bad thing
      likes this.
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     Weeble (weeble@bungle.online)'s status on Sunday, 14-Aug-2022 15:10:23 JST Weeble

     in reply to

     @neko@rdrama.cc Again I don't see the issue. I can see if it fucks up something on the technical side but again this is probably what most ppl want from a defed.
     
     Cuz what you'd rather basically talk to a wall? Stumble into a conversation that u were lucky to catch cuz a mutual replied to it?
     
     Yeah you can screenshot posts but that's even gayer than sending a reply you know OP won't hear
     
     Defederation itself is censorship so the better question would be why we have it in the first place.
     
     Personally I see the point of fedi as a place to control your presence and curate content, and not have your data and timeline be handled by AI algorithms.
     
     If people just wanted to not see posts they'd just remove em from public timeline.