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   Henri Sivonen (hsivonen@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 03-Nov-2025 18:40:20 JST Henri Sivonen

   I dislike framing current Linux system on hppa, alpha, or m68k as reducing e-waste. If that was true, current Linux system on i386 (non-SSE) would be about reducing e-waste, but https://lists.debian.org/debian-release/2024/11/msg00459.html is the realistic take about that: There’s so much x86_64 hardware that’s about to go to e-waste unless someone accepts it for zero or near-zero money, that if e-waste is your concern, you should take an about-to-be-e-wasted x86_64 computer and retire the i386, hppa, alpha, or m68k hardware.

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     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 03-Nov-2025 18:41:19 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     @hsivonen also these old systems are so incredibly inefficient in terms of DMIPS/W that running them as anything other than a hobby is untenable

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     ✧✦Catherine✦✧ (whitequark@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Nov-2025 09:38:49 JST ✧✦Catherine✦✧

     in reply to

     • Gantua

     @gantua @hsivonen there are some exceptions, yeah

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     Gantua (gantua@pleroma.marchera-pas.fr)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Nov-2025 09:38:52 JST Gantua

     in reply to

     • ✧✦Catherine✦✧
     @whitequark @hsivonen Some of these systems are quite hard to replace by efficient alternatives. I retired a 15 years old i386 fanless industrial pc with 2 eth, many serial and USB1 ports, screen, two SATA drives and a PCI port. It consumed ~15W.
     
     To get the same DMIPS with less watt these days, you would probably need an ARM SBC, except most of those are missing the connectivity of a PC, have an out-of-tree kernel with no security updates and you are expected to design the case and the thermal management yourself, otherwise it will crash every week.
     
     In the end, i replaced it with a modern PC with more DMIPS for the same wattage, hoping it will last ten years. Hardly a win for e-waste.
   • Embed this notice
     Henri Sivonen (hsivonen@mastodon.social)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Nov-2025 15:47:18 JST Henri Sivonen

     in reply to

     Running a current Linux system on hppa, alpha, or m68k isn’t about avoiding e-waste but about the hack value. If enjoying the hack value is your hobby, that’s ok per se. However, in practice, this often involves demanding that other busy people participate in your hobby when they don’t enjoy it as part of their hobby or job. That’s less ok.

     i386 was easier to retire, because it had been a collective thing instead of someone having been very invested in it as a hobby.

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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Tuesday, 04-Nov-2025 15:47:18 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to
     @hsivonen If you're thinking about just desktop-but-wacky-cpu yeah it's just hobbyist.
     But when it's much more powerful machines (like servers, hppa and alpha got those) or very dedicated machines (regular embedded, workstation with special hardware attached, or even industrial), then it entirely is e-waste.