Conversation

Notices

1. Embed this notice
   Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Thursday, 18-Sep-2025 18:41:59 JST Strypey

   "Many of these [Zot/Nomad] ]ideas are being ported to ActivityPub in the form of Fediverse Enhancement Proposals (FEPs).

   ... Streams ... is working with Mitra to create the first implementation of nomadic identity over ActivityPub. This includes working on several related FEPs about identity proofs and conversation containers.

   Our goal is for these technologies to spread throughout the fediverse."

   https://opennomad.net/page/nomad/home

   #fediverse #ActivityPub #Zot #Nomad #FEP

   • Embed this notice
     Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Thursday, 18-Sep-2025 18:41:55 JST Strypey

     in reply to

     • infinite love ⴳ

     This is a really well written essay by @trwnh;

     https://github.com/mastodon/mastodon/issues/10590

     It proposes reducing the amount of spam injected into the fediverse, by making manual mod approval of new accounts the default in all fediverse server software.

     I thoroughly agree. Admins woulds still be free to use open registration, but they'd have to opt-in to the potential consequences. Not stumble into them.

     This was written in 2019. Is manual approval of new accounts the default yet?

     #FediverseIdeas #AntiSpam

   • Embed this notice
     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 18-Sep-2025 18:41:55 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • infinite love ⴳ
     @strypey @trwnh
     everyonewillnotjust.jpg
     ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Thursday, 18-Sep-2025 18:41:58 JST Strypey

     in reply to

     This is cool graphic by Imke Senst and Mike Kuketz, illustrating the fediverse and 19 of the software packages used in it. With coloured lines showing which ones can federate with each other, over which protocols;

     https://opennomad.net/cloud/nomad/Diagrams/fediverse-diagram.png

     #fediverse

   • Embed this notice
     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Thursday, 18-Sep-2025 18:56:37 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     • fedilist
     @strypey ...This probably comes across crankier than intended. But you can't expect all implementors past/present/future to get on-board with something that doesn't affect compatibility. And if you look at @fedilist, there are now a lot of Ghost/Wordpress servers popping up (to the extent that I had to special-case Ghost in the bot).
     
     But there are 3,109 instances with open registrations, 6,444 with closed registrations, 4,054 invite-only, and 4,203 approval-only. There are very few with open registrations nowadays compared to the rest of the network.
     
     The solution to the spam problem is user-centric controls, but it's much less of a problem than it used to be.
     ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Judge Dread (judgedread@poa.st)'s status on Thursday, 18-Sep-2025 20:05:17 JST Judge Dread

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     @p NJP ran aground on the stony rocks of that truth.
     pistolero likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     silverpill (silverpill@mitra.social)'s status on Friday, 19-Sep-2025 00:32:35 JST silverpill

     in reply to

     @strypey The diagram needs an update because now we have a new category of fedi software: forums (Discourse, NodeBB).

   • Embed this notice
     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Friday, 19-Sep-2025 07:45:09 JST pistolero

     in reply to
     @strypey
     
     > maybe that call to action and others like it played a part in moving from almost all fediverse services being open registration, to;
     
     I watched it happen; FediList was active by the time that shift started. The two things it coincided with were the wider availability of admin-approval and the spam problem. A call-to-action is scoldy, and people don't go looking for solutions to hypotheticals: half the time people are glad just to be able to get it working. I was half-drunk when I set up FSE, expecting it not to work on the first try, because of all the difficulty people reported. But if the solution is available when people experience a problem, then you get buy-in. Most problems are fake.
     
     > It just wouldn't have happened without discussions to a) create the option, and b) encourage its use.
     
     I think writing the option in created the option, and the encouragement was spam. What the fretting over danger has done is scare people into not doing it. I have complained a lot about trouble you run into running a server, and people have told me that this sort of problem is why they don't run their own instance. I mean, I'm fascinated by the sort of weird shit you run into and I don't want to give people the impression that it's different than it is, so I'd rather not filter, but these are real problems I encounter, but people that have the problem that looks like it's near what I'm posting about, they ping me. And really, which is worse: ambient spam, or fewer people running servers? Look what happened to email: nobody runs their own server, Google owns email now. This is fucked up. "You had better $x, you'd better do $y, everyone that doesn't disable $z is cancelled." is poisonous. "I'm happy to help if you run a server" has gotten more machines stood up than any "Look at all the problems!" post, and people knowing who to ask when they have a problem mitigates more problems.
     
     I think that fixes and prevents more problems: make sure you hit the problem first so that you know what to tell people that run into it and you're available to people that want help.
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Friday, 19-Sep-2025 07:45:11 JST Strypey

     in reply to

     • pistolero

     @p
     > you can't expect all implementors past/present/future to get on-board with something

     Maybe not, but maybe that call to action and others like it played a part in moving from almost all fediverse services being open registration, to;

     > But there are 3,109 instances with open registrations, 6,444 with closed registrations, 4,054 invite-only, and 4,203 approval-only

     It just wouldn't have happened without discussions to a) create the option, and b) encourage its use.

   • Embed this notice
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Friday, 19-Sep-2025 07:52:38 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     @p @strypey Heh email, at some point in 2019 I was like "Fuck it, I'll run my own" and turns out it works quite well, maybe even better than most email services that aren't GMail.
     
     I even took like 1~2 years before I set up a spam filter, should give an idea how lazy I am about the thing (and how spam is pretty much noticable merely from the Subject line).
     pistolero likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Friday, 19-Sep-2025 07:59:15 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     @lanodan @strypey Yeah, most of what I have to do to my mail server is dictated by what GMail is doing, though.
   • Embed this notice
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Friday, 19-Sep-2025 08:11:16 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     @p @strypey Sure but SPF and DKIM aren't that hard, and I doubt anything else will pop up for personal email servers, usually it's against mailing-lists and borderline spamers (newsletters goes there, specially bullshit they subscribe you to after registering an account).
     pistolero likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Friday, 19-Sep-2025 08:17:49 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     @lanodan @strypey It's not hard to stay compatible with Mastodon but it's shitty that they dictate the network.
     
     > I doubt anything else will pop up for personal email servers
     
     They are always pulling something. They were mulling requiring AAAA records as a spam check: my old ISP wouldn't give me an IPv6 address.
     
     > usually it's against mailing-lists and borderline spamers
     
     Half of my spam comes from Google, the other half from big mail services. I get basically no spam from random independently operated mail servers.
     ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware: likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Friday, 19-Sep-2025 08:20:05 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     @p @strypey AAAA records? Makes no sense, most providers sending email don't do IPv6 either.
     
     > I get basically no spam from random independently operated mail servers.
     
     Yeah, rspamd put the AS number in the header so I once just grepped a bunch and turns out something like Google or Mailgrid *alone* sends more spam than random hosts.
   • Embed this notice
     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Friday, 19-Sep-2025 08:25:05 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     @lanodan @strypey
     
     > AAAA records? Makes no sense, most providers sending email don't do IPv6 either.
     
     It's almost like that's the idea.
     
     > Yeah, rspamd put the AS number in the header so I once just grepped a bunch and turns out something like Google or Mailgrid *alone* sends more spam than random hosts.
     
     Shit, I forgot about the Beehiiv and Substack bullshit because I kill that stuff at the source.
   • Embed this notice
     ≠ (amerika@annihilation.social)'s status on Friday, 19-Sep-2025 08:26:21 JST ≠

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • pistolero
     @p @strypey @lanodan
     
     Google is fail
     pistolero likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Friday, 19-Sep-2025 08:26:38 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • ≠
     @amerika @lanodan @strypey I'll get the bastards yet.
   • Embed this notice
     ≠ (amerika@annihilation.social)'s status on Friday, 19-Sep-2025 08:28:40 JST ≠

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • pistolero
     @p @strypey @lanodan
     
     IPv6 is the quinoa avocado toast of networking
     pistolero likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Friday, 19-Sep-2025 08:29:58 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • ≠
     @amerika @lanodan @strypey No, quinoa and avocados are good. IPv6 is the IPA of networking.
   • Embed this notice
     ≠ (amerika@annihilation.social)'s status on Friday, 19-Sep-2025 08:35:49 JST ≠

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • pistolero
     @p @strypey @lanodan
     
     I think the stupid fucks will do themselves in, to be honest.
     
     The smart people left long ago.
     pistolero likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     ≠ (amerika@annihilation.social)'s status on Friday, 19-Sep-2025 08:39:59 JST ≠

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware:
     • pistolero
     @dcc @p @lanodan @strypey
     
     Deport
     ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware: and pistolero like this.
   • Embed this notice
     ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware: (dcc@annihilation.social)'s status on Friday, 19-Sep-2025 08:40:00 JST ✙ dcc :pedomustdie: :phear_slackware:

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • pistolero
     @p @strypey @lanodan I have been my self, about 5 spam emails a day in Japanese from Chinese email servers.
   • Embed this notice
     ≠ (amerika@annihilation.social)'s status on Friday, 19-Sep-2025 11:26:02 JST ≠

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • pistolero
     @p @strypey @lanodan
     
     I know hipsters like 'em, but I like the IPAs... the good ones anyway.
     
     Goofy genre though. Then again, I also dig grindcore, so...
     pistolero likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Friday, 19-Sep-2025 12:04:40 JST Strypey

     in reply to

     • pistolero

     (2/2)

     @p
     > which is worse: ambient spam, or fewer people running servers?

     Given 2 options, I take the third.

     Making account approval default in fediverse software makes it *much* easier to run a server. It prevents the situation where people set up a server for themselves, or a group of friends, then find themselves hosting hundreds of demanding strangers, and getting FediBlocked for being a source of spam.

     If it's the server default, the scolding you rightly object to is mostly avoided.

     pistolero likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Strypey (strypey@mastodon.nzoss.nz)'s status on Friday, 19-Sep-2025 12:04:43 JST Strypey

     in reply to

     • pistolero

     (1/2)

     @p
     > writing the option in created the option

     You know what came before? Discussion of the problem and potential solutions. You can deny that discussion > consensus > effective, large-scale action until you're blue in the face (no offence to anyone who identifies as a smurf). But it's my experience that this is how it works.

     Some people follow the consensus and prevent it emerged spontaneously from their own unique, individual brilliance. No judgment, whatever gets you through the day 🤷♂️

   • Embed this notice
     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Friday, 19-Sep-2025 12:06:24 JST pistolero

     in reply to
     @strypey
     
     > Given 2 options, I take the third.
     
     The options are to scare people off or to support their efforts to provide infrastructure to the network. Running an instance already has a high enough barrier to entry.
   • Embed this notice
     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Friday, 19-Sep-2025 12:06:49 JST pistolero

     in reply to
     @strypey
     
     > Some people follow the consensus and prevent it emerged spontaneously from their own unique, individual brilliance. No judgment, whatever gets you through the day :neckbeard:
     
     fixd
     
     A thing doesn't require consensus to be created. Consensus does not create a thing. A protocol requires consensus, but this does not. And FediList, which did not require consensus to be created, but just someone willing to do the work, enabled people to observe the changes to the network in real-time.
     
     Sure, ideas spread through communication (do have a look at the domain name) but if a person is standing a machine up and joining a network, the consensus can't have involved them: a person starting an instance needs to know who to ask so they don't have to guess, and "who" has to be "people, specific people that you can specifically address" instead of "a wiki" or "file a ticket so we can tell you it's a dup" or "a bunch of stuff in the doc directory that does not account for a bug that started happening *today*".
   • Embed this notice
     RedTechEngineer (redtechengineer@fedi.lowpassfilter.link)'s status on Friday, 19-Sep-2025 12:17:37 JST RedTechEngineer

     in reply to

     • pistolero
     @p @strypey
     >Running an instance already has a high enough barrier to entry.
     just install pleroma OTP but follow akkoma's instructions. shrimple as.
     pistolero likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     pistolero (p@fsebugoutzone.org)'s status on Friday, 19-Sep-2025 12:20:29 JST pistolero

     in reply to

     • RedTechEngineer
     @RedTechEngineer @strypey :bruceforsythe: