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1. Embed this notice
   Hélène (helene@p.helene.moe)'s status on Saturday, 13-Aug-2022 04:51:32 JST Hélène
   custom emoji reacts are needed so i can add "wholesome awards" to posts
   • Embed this notice
     मी (meeper@outerheaven.club)'s status on Saturday, 13-Aug-2022 04:52:27 JST मी

     in reply to
     @helene :nap_kitty:
     Hélène likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     yujiri (yujiri@collapsitarian.io)'s status on Saturday, 13-Aug-2022 04:53:01 JST yujiri

     in reply to

     @helene custom emoji reacts are NOT needed

     Hélène likes this.
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     Каэдэ падает в бесконечность :QueerCat_Bisexual: :QueerCat_Ace: (kaede@expired.mentality.rip)'s status on Saturday, 13-Aug-2022 04:53:20 JST Каэдэ падает в бесконечность :QueerCat_Bisexual: :QueerCat_Ace:

     in reply to
     @helene a cat emoji can be the wholesome award because cats are the most wholesome creatures
     Hélène likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Hélène (helene@p.helene.moe)'s status on Saturday, 13-Aug-2022 04:55:56 JST Hélène

     in reply to

     • i seethe and
     @cope not sure what you mean
   • Embed this notice
     i seethe and (cope@eeeeeeeee.eu)'s status on Saturday, 13-Aug-2022 04:55:58 JST i seethe and

     in reply to
     @helene why is ? not a reaction already
     Hélène likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     मी (meeper@outerheaven.club)'s status on Saturday, 13-Aug-2022 04:57:13 JST मी

     in reply to

     • i seethe and
     @helene @cope blerima not showing all emoties as reacts
     Hélène likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     मी (meeper@outerheaven.club)'s status on Saturday, 13-Aug-2022 04:57:15 JST मी

     in reply to

     • मी
     • i seethe and
     @helene @cope I think
     Hélène likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     i seethe and (cope@eeeeeeeee.eu)'s status on Saturday, 13-Aug-2022 04:58:03 JST i seethe and

     in reply to
     @helene what is it called then? not in the picker for me
     Hélène likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Hélène (helene@p.helene.moe)'s status on Saturday, 13-Aug-2022 04:58:36 JST Hélène

     in reply to

     • yujiri
     @Yujiri what's your opinion against them
   • Embed this notice
     yujiri (yujiri@collapsitarian.io)'s status on Saturday, 13-Aug-2022 21:19:17 JST yujiri

     in reply to

     @helene software architecture. wherever possible, features should be portable, not specific to one app. The unicode emojis are standard, they work everywhere without implementing any special support for them. custom emojis have to be downloaded for the client to render them, and even if they are supported on every fediverse app, they’ll never be supported on apps outside of the ecosystem, so you can’t copy-paste them like you can with regular emojis.

     I also think that emoji reacts themselves are bloat

   • Embed this notice
     Hélène (helene@p.helene.moe)'s status on Saturday, 13-Aug-2022 21:19:17 JST Hélène

     in reply to

     • yujiri
     @Yujiri I'm not sure I understand the reasoning. Are you against custom emoji, too?
   • Embed this notice
     yujiri (yujiri@collapsitarian.io)'s status on Saturday, 13-Aug-2022 21:27:23 JST yujiri

     in reply to

     @helene yes.

   • Embed this notice
     Hélène (helene@p.helene.moe)'s status on Saturday, 13-Aug-2022 21:27:23 JST Hélène

     in reply to

     • yujiri
     @Yujiri Sounds like you want Honk, not Pleroma or Mastodon
   • Embed this notice
     yujiri (yujiri@collapsitarian.io)'s status on Saturday, 13-Aug-2022 21:29:15 JST yujiri

     in reply to

     @helene maybe. never heard of it before

   • Embed this notice
     Hélène (helene@p.helene.moe)'s status on Saturday, 13-Aug-2022 21:29:15 JST Hélène

     in reply to

     • yujiri
     @Yujiri You should check it out, it's pretty cool: https://humungus.tedunangst.com/r/honk
   • Embed this notice
     yujiri (yujiri@collapsitarian.io)'s status on Saturday, 13-Aug-2022 21:48:05 JST yujiri

     in reply to

     • Каэдэ падает в бесконечность :QueerCat_Bisexual: :QueerCat_Ace:

     @kaede @helene yeah and it sucks. Interoperability requires more standardization, not more unnecessary features

   • Embed this notice
     Hélène (helene@p.helene.moe)'s status on Saturday, 13-Aug-2022 21:48:05 JST Hélène

     in reply to

     • Каэдэ падает в бесконечность :QueerCat_Bisexual: :QueerCat_Ace:
     • yujiri
     @Yujiri @kaede That's just Mastodon stripping out the HTML tags from Note contents. Pleroma does this to some extent as well, just much less.
   • Embed this notice
     yujiri (yujiri@collapsitarian.io)'s status on Saturday, 13-Aug-2022 21:48:07 JST yujiri

     in reply to

     • yujiri

     @helene but a big part of the reason i hate features like this is because you can’t escape their consequences by using software that doesn’t have them. Other people on fedi will be using them, and interaction is hampered when they can see things you can’t

     Basically, features in protocols, standards, or formats have a peculiar nature where they can never be truly optional, even if they’re intended to be.

   • Embed this notice
     Каэдэ падает в бесконечность :QueerCat_Bisexual: :QueerCat_Ace: (kaede@expired.mentality.rip)'s status on Saturday, 13-Aug-2022 21:48:07 JST Каэдэ падает в бесконечность :QueerCat_Bisexual: :QueerCat_Ace:

     in reply to

     • yujiri

     @Yujiri @helene that’s just how the things are now Mastodon doesn’t support markdown rendering anymore, Mastodon doesn’t support emoji reacts while Misskey supports only emoji reacts etc

   • Embed this notice
     Hélène (helene@p.helene.moe)'s status on Saturday, 13-Aug-2022 21:51:47 JST Hélène

     in reply to

     • Каэдэ падает в бесконечность :QueerCat_Bisexual: :QueerCat_Ace:
     • yujiri
     @Yujiri @kaede ActivityPub Notes should be sent with HTML contents. That is how custom emoji work, as well as links, etc, too. You can write your posts in HTML directly from Pleroma-FE, though some tags and attributes will be stripped out (security etc).
   • Embed this notice
     yujiri (yujiri@collapsitarian.io)'s status on Saturday, 13-Aug-2022 21:51:48 JST yujiri

     in reply to

     • Каэдэ падает в бесконечность :QueerCat_Bisexual: :QueerCat_Ace:

     @helene @kaede Wait, are you saying that pleroma sends markdown messages in HTML form, and mastodon renders them by stripping out the tags?!?

   • Embed this notice
     Hélène (helene@p.helene.moe)'s status on Saturday, 13-Aug-2022 21:54:18 JST Hélène

     in reply to

     • Каэдэ падает в бесконечность :QueerCat_Bisexual: :QueerCat_Ace:
     • yujiri
     @kaede @Yujiri Mastodon strips out almost all tags besides <a>, as far as I've seen.
   • Embed this notice
     Каэдэ падает в бесконечность :QueerCat_Bisexual: :QueerCat_Ace: (kaede@expired.mentality.rip)'s status on Saturday, 13-Aug-2022 21:54:19 JST Каэдэ падает в бесконечность :QueerCat_Bisexual: :QueerCat_Ace:

     in reply to

     • yujiri
     @Yujiri @helene I recently posted a status with markdown then looked it up on my Mastodon alt and found out Mastodon doesn't even show there was something with the formatting, it's just plain text
     Hélène likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     yujiri (yujiri@collapsitarian.io)'s status on Saturday, 13-Aug-2022 21:54:20 JST yujiri

     in reply to

     • Каэдэ падает в бесконечность :QueerCat_Bisexual: :QueerCat_Ace:
     • yujiri

     @kaede @helene Case in point: I had no idea that mastodon doesn’t support markdown rendering. What does that mean mastodon users see when I make a markdown post? Does it show up as just markdown source, or HTML? From software that offers me the option to write in markdown, I never would’ve known that some people can’t see my posts the way I do

   • Embed this notice
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Saturday, 13-Aug-2022 21:56:47 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • Каэдэ падает в бесконечность :QueerCat_Bisexual: :QueerCat_Ace:
     • yujiri
     @helene @Yujiri @kaede That's legacy for custom emojis, Mastodon introduced a proper object for them 3+ years ago.
     Now they're separated and clients+frontends are doing text-replace at rendering time.
     
     Allows better caching but also easily grabbing other instances emojis.
     Hélène likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Hélène (helene@p.helene.moe)'s status on Saturday, 13-Aug-2022 21:59:42 JST Hélène

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • Каэдэ падает в бесконечность :QueerCat_Bisexual: :QueerCat_Ace:
     • yujiri
     @Yujiri @kaede @lanodan If it was sent as shortcodes, then, as a shortcode. If it was sent as an <img> tag, then that depends on if your client/server strips things out and supports proper HTML rendering. GNU Social sees shortcodes, for example.
   • Embed this notice
     yujiri (yujiri@collapsitarian.io)'s status on Saturday, 13-Aug-2022 21:59:43 JST yujiri

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • Каэдэ падает в бесконечность :QueerCat_Bisexual: :QueerCat_Ace:

     @lanodan @kaede @helene Wait, so custom emojis are a protocol-level feature? How does that mean they would render on a client that doesn’t support them

   • Embed this notice
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Saturday, 13-Aug-2022 22:01:42 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • Каэдэ падает в бесконечность :QueerCat_Bisexual: :QueerCat_Ace:
     • yujiri
     @Yujiri @kaede @helene On a client without support for them, you would get :foobar: instead of an actual emoji.
     
     At least in this case there is fallback, which is otherwise non-existent in JSON-LD compared to say XML.
     Hélène likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Hélène (helene@p.helene.moe)'s status on Saturday, 13-Aug-2022 22:05:36 JST Hélène

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • Каэдэ падает в бесконечность :QueerCat_Bisexual: :QueerCat_Ace:
     • yujiri
     @Yujiri @kaede @lanodan Then, you might want to learn that posts on Misskey are rejected if the post they reply to cannot be fetched or does not exist.
     ActivityPub wasn't made for "everything is the same and acts the same", and it is not what interests me in it personally. It is all different based on what people want, or need. It was not designed just for microblogging, either. Nothing is the same anywhere, and expecting it to would be misunderstanding the network, in my opinion. People are here because it is different, because it is their own place on the Internet.
   • Embed this notice
     yujiri (yujiri@collapsitarian.io)'s status on Saturday, 13-Aug-2022 22:05:37 JST yujiri

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • Каэдэ падает в бесконечность :QueerCat_Bisexual: :QueerCat_Ace:

     @helene @kaede @lanodan Okay, so I maintain my stance: one of the reasons to oppose custom emojis is that they may not render as expected for other people, and you won’t know about it. I’ve learned that this also applies to markdown unfortunately :/

   • Embed this notice
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Saturday, 13-Aug-2022 22:05:40 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • Каэдэ падает в бесконечность :QueerCat_Bisexual: :QueerCat_Ace:
     • yujiri
     @Yujiri @kaede @helene Well… fediverse isn't IRC
     
     *remember mIRC colors*
     
     Erm… Fediverse isn't talk(1)
     Hélène likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     חרבס (xarvos@nixnet.social)'s status on Saturday, 13-Aug-2022 22:08:26 JST חרבס

     in reply to

     • yujiri

     @helene @Yujiri huh, I thought honk has custom emojis (emus) too?

     Hélène likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Hélène (helene@p.helene.moe)'s status on Saturday, 13-Aug-2022 22:10:13 JST Hélène

     in reply to

     • חרבס
     • yujiri
     @xarvos @Yujiri it probably does, indeed, it's pretty much considered to be a standard feature, but the point is that trying to refuse features because not everyone supports them is, well... never write an ActivityPub software then, as some servers don't even accept Notes (replies to WriteFreely blog posts will never show to them, for example)
   • Embed this notice
     Hélène (helene@p.helene.moe)'s status on Saturday, 13-Aug-2022 22:16:56 JST Hélène

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • Каэдэ падает в бесконечность :QueerCat_Bisexual: :QueerCat_Ace:
     • yujiri
     @kaede @Yujiri @lanodan Same with Mobilizon, WriteFreely, Plume, PeerTube, ...
   • Embed this notice
     yujiri (yujiri@collapsitarian.io)'s status on Saturday, 13-Aug-2022 22:16:59 JST yujiri

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • Каэдэ падает в бесконечность :QueerCat_Bisexual: :QueerCat_Ace:

     @helene @kaede @lanodan > posts on Misskey are rejected if the post they reply to cannot be fetched or does not exist.

     I don’t know if you mean that Misskey users can’t reply to posts using features Misskey doesn’t support, or something else, but if true that’s the worst thing I’ve heard yet.

     I do think of fediverse as a counterpart to twitter and think that it should be interoperable. That’s the point of federation. If Pleroma and Mastodon and Misskey don’t support the same features or have the same purpose, why would they federate?

   • Embed this notice
     Каэдэ падает в бесконечность :QueerCat_Bisexual: :QueerCat_Ace: (kaede@expired.mentality.rip)'s status on Saturday, 13-Aug-2022 22:16:59 JST Каэдэ падает в бесконечность :QueerCat_Bisexual: :QueerCat_Ace:

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • yujiri
     @Yujiri @helene @lanodan they all also federate with Pixelfed which is truly something distinct
   • Embed this notice
     Каэдэ падает в бесконечность :QueerCat_Bisexual: :QueerCat_Ace: (kaede@expired.mentality.rip)'s status on Saturday, 13-Aug-2022 22:23:41 JST Каэдэ падает в бесконечность :QueerCat_Bisexual: :QueerCat_Ace:

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • yujiri
     @Yujiri @helene @lanodan btw there's even a pic about this all
     Hélène likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Saturday, 13-Aug-2022 22:27:13 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to

     • Каэдэ падает в бесконечность :QueerCat_Bisexual: :QueerCat_Ace:
     • yujiri
     @kaede @Yujiri @helene And it's not the only one
     Pleroma Emoji React vs. Mastodong.png
     Hélène likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Hélène (helene@p.helene.moe)'s status on Saturday, 13-Aug-2022 22:45:25 JST Hélène

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • Каэдэ падает в бесконечность :QueerCat_Bisexual: :QueerCat_Ace:
     • yujiri
     @Yujiri @kaede @lanodan If one post cannot federate (e.g. instance is down, blocked, or something), then Misskey will not accept any of the replies either.
     
     >If Pleroma and Mastodon and Misskey don’t support the same features or have the same purpose, why would they federate?
     Why would they not? That's what I love about the fediverse!
   • Embed this notice
     Hélène (helene@p.helene.moe)'s status on Saturday, 13-Aug-2022 22:48:26 JST Hélène

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • Каэдэ падает в бесконечность :QueerCat_Bisexual: :QueerCat_Ace:
     • yujiri
     @Yujiri @kaede @lanodan I agree that we should tell users about what the other instance might not expect, and we are looking into that. But refusing to implementing features on grounds that other software might not support it (though they may later) is not of my opinion. Repeats, favs and replies do not federate to WriteFreely blog posts, but why should I not be able to do that? Why should WriteFreely not federate? Why should I not be able to emoji react, either?
   • Embed this notice
     yujiri (yujiri@collapsitarian.io)'s status on Saturday, 13-Aug-2022 22:48:27 JST yujiri

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • Каэдэ падает в бесконечность :QueerCat_Bisexual: :QueerCat_Ace:

     @helene @kaede @lanodan > Why would they not? That’s what I love about the fediverse!

     I just don’t see why you’d accept that there’s value in interoperation between the platforms in the first place, but deny that there’s value in making that interoperation work more consistently.

   • Embed this notice
     yujiri (yujiri@collapsitarian.io)'s status on Sunday, 14-Aug-2022 00:07:35 JST yujiri

     in reply to

     • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:
     • Каэдэ падает в бесконечность :QueerCat_Bisexual: :QueerCat_Ace:

     @helene @kaede @lanodan > Repeats, favs and replies do not federate to WriteFreely blog posts, but why should I not be able to do that?

     I don’t think that those features should be removed. WriteFreely is something I haven’t heard of before, but it sounds like a blogging platform, which shouldn’t be expected to have the same feature set as a twitter replacement… I assume that WriteFreely posts show up on here but not vice versa, is that it? In that case I would think of Pleroma as something like a comment system for it, which is useful.

     I agree that we should tell users about what the other instance might not expect, and we are looking into that.

     I don’t think approach can work well. What do you have in mind, labeling every button with a “not supported by all servers” message? Based on what I’ve learned in this thread, that would have to apply to a lot of things in the Pleroma interface, and with anything less explicit, many users probably won’t see it and will just expect things to work. Though I suppose just having documentation somewhere would mitigate the problem.

     Re: emoji reactions, i was against them earlier but on second thought idk, maybe I shouldn’t object to that feature and should instead want mastodon to implement it

     Hélène likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     robflop (robflop@misskey.io)'s status on Sunday, 14-Aug-2022 00:25:20 JST robflop

     in reply to

     • yujiri

     @Yujiri@collapsitarian.io @helene@p.helene.moe Platforms offering a wider and better feature set should not be held down by the platform that don't, to say it in a less amiable way than helene did - if you really have to know if something is going on at the source instance that you might not be able to see you can always check out the post on the remote instance itself. This freedom of the fediverse is a perk, not a demerit, and locking things down too much strips it of said perk. I wouldn't be here were it not for the features that Misskey has and other platforms lack, for example.

     Hélène likes this.