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The niche that Steam is having trouble serving because of banks is primarily rape and incest games
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@sun and hypno
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@hj effectively non consensual according to banks
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@WandererUber not really on steam but except for loli
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@sun Sure. And loli, and suicide, and hatred, and badthink, and basically anything else that mastercard doesn't like. They would have banned games without black people and porn without faggots if they thought they could get away with it.
Your point?
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@WandererUber Mastercard has no rule you have to have brown people in your game and you cannot demonstrate Steam has ever banned a game for not having brown people
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@sun >15. Content that may violate the rules and standards set forth by Steam’s payment processors and related card networks and banks, or internet network providers. In particular, certain kinds of adult only content.
Delusional
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@WandererUber prove it or shut up
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@sun Somehow you missed what I actually said even though I only wrote two sentences.
Somehow you missed what the clause says even though it is only two sentences.
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@sun "I claim A."
"You can't prove they ever did B!!!"
??????????????? I never said they did you retard why would I try to prove it
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@WandererUber your original post just assumed some point I was making I guess
I was talking about what Steam actually has banned
You are talking about what they could ban, which strictly speaking was always the policy just not explicit
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@WandererUber I don’t actually know why you’re seemingly upset about it I wasn’t trying to make anybody upset
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@WandererUber it wasn’t clear to me that you were talking about hypotheticals rather than just like Mastercard policy because it mixed things that are and are not actively banned and aren’t part of their current policy. If you get down to it banks and Mastercard can ban anything they say carries reputational risk to their own brand
In practice are they goi g to do this, they have only really leveraged it for things that normal people are loathe to defend
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@sun Not really upset. You're the one who missed my point twice and then got aggressive.
I was pointing out that this is incorrect and the clause that Mastercard forced them to add is really not exclusive to that at all.
And then I asked, if you're not trying to piss people off as you say you should want to explain this maybe, what even your point is in saying that they currently only ban raep and incest and loli.
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@sun I don't actually care about any of these games, but the whole thing feels like a trial run. If it works, the effort will be expanded beyond rape/incest and even beyond video games.
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@sun >What steam banned
is also completely besides the issue. Mastercard banned these things, not Steam.
During prohibition, would you say that restaurants were the ones banning alcohol? What mindset is this...
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@WandererUber it’s actually even more confusing than that because Mastercard is claiming that banks made them do it rather than it being their idea, but nobody is sure if this is true
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@WandererUber you’re right but it’s still because these things are broadly indefensible to most people
The only reason the steam thing got traction was by shitlibs pretending that it wa coming. For lgbt games
This is happened because I didn’t state clearly why I was bringing this up which is basically that if you wanted to make like a crypto alternative to steam it would have a hard time because regular games don’t need crypto and the games that need crypto are largely unpopular so that’s going to be using you and you’ll never break the association so it is more desirable for Steam to just support crypto than building an alternative platform
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@sun Now you're walking it back to generalities and that's where you're wrong. Newproject2 and Hatreon were both simple payment processors and they were banned by Mastercard, not for porn. "The banks" as you called it in your opening and the other branch have also banned a huge number of people from banking in general by now.
So I really wonder what your point is by saying they don't currently ban more than specific porn on Steam. Which is what I asked in the first place...
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@WandererUber I am pro alternative and anti bank I am not defending any of the censorship stuff
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@WandererUber I think it’s a viable business model I just don’t think mainstream acceptance will ever follow
I could be wrong!
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@sun >it’s still because these things are broadly indefensible to most people
The ban is because of this? you haven't shown this at all.
Crypto thing is interesting! Finally you answer my question 😏
>you’ll never break the association
I wonder if you'd even need to. To what benefit? Steam is a monopoly because of Schelling point.
So look at actual Steam competitors like Desura (cooked) and all the ones by the publishers. They could not get traction at all, until Tencent dumped a lot of cash into the EGS to capture a small audience. I doubt even that is worth it by now.
If you have a guaranteed niche of people who can never leave, you're basically already level with Steam. Those porn games have nowhere else to go so you don't even have to be eat a loss on fees to capture them.
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@WandererUber 100% MC gave a list of things they’d definitely fine for but not necessarily a list of potentially everything they’d fine for. Valve was surgical in what they delisted initially but then later added the “anything out upstream providers disallow” because of the 10kusd per violation fine
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@sun Well since steam doesn't enforce exclusivity (afaik), non-banned porn games might just be on both so they can take crypto. Publishers of that wouldn't have an issue with the association. Then VNs.
I actually thought about this before and you might probably want to "launder" the tech somewhat. So you provide the payment interface first and the platform with recommends and such separately.
You can reuse the backend and build reputation for your payment processing that way, and the gooner game store is different from this.
You'd need a few PR people that are on the ball for hit pieces though and constantly bring up how Mastercard funded terrorism, drugs, and prostitution too. Badjacket any journo that tries to fuck with you.
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@WandererUber I have thought about what it would take to make a credibly neutral and uncensorable steam alternative but I can only do it if I got investment money, it’s a multi year effort
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@WandererUber Steam has a couple different but valuable moving parts and crypto serves all of them in different ways
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@sun I think most of these games make the bulk of their money from pledge sites like Patreon. Maybe something like that is more achievable for a start? You'd not need to provide the automatic updates, community, etc. Just recurring payments with crypto (hard enough)
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@WandererUber yeah it has to be both a Patreon and a distribution service and a payment processor
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@WandererUber Steam effectively does not have exclusivity but they indirectly change your payout if you aren’t exclusive sometimes because they provide some game api services and you can bypass paying them for it through trickery, they justifiably try to prevent that and origin tried to argue this was monopoly abuse
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@WandererUber you can definitely build this piece by piece it just helps to have vertical integration "one stop shop" experience to get people to switch
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@sun Not from the start. I think there would be real value in being a sort of meta-payment-processor/pledge site. Because a lot of these people are on patreon and subscribestar and that new one (They do an intermediate currency to try and avoid censorship).
Instead of having to manage one more site for the marginal benefit of crypto users, you provide a management interface for all of them PLUS crypto. That could get people to switch just on it's own. You'd barely have to make a functioning payment processor and patreon-site. The rest could come later.
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@sun That's why I said maybe provide this experience by bundling all the pledge sites that already exist. Then you have people using your service. Tack on crypto, take fees. Use that to get the rest off the ground.
Blurry Moon
narcolepsy and alcoholism :flag:
Wanderer über dem Nebelmeer
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