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   Evan Prodromou (evan@prodromou.pub)'s status on Thursday, 17-Nov-2022 00:09:13 JST Evan Prodromou

   in reply to

   • infinite love ⴳ
   • mralanorth
   • Erin 💽
   • blaine
   • Dr. Johnathan Flowers

   @blaine @erincandescent @trwnh @mralanorth @shengokai I hope Eugen is open to experimentation within the bounds of the protocol!

   • Embed this notice
     blaine (blaine@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 17-Nov-2022 00:09:14 JST blaine

     in reply to

     • infinite love ⴳ
     • mralanorth
     • Erin 💽
     • Dr. Johnathan Flowers

     @erincandescent @trwnh @mralanorth @shengokai ☝️☝️☝️

     The model where everyone gets a new identity for every community they join (1) largely defeats the purpose of federation (2) does not scale as people have *many* communities of interest and (3) doesn't map to our natural conception of identity.

     I *hope* it's fixable. May take some convincing of Eugen, which seems hard from this vantage point.

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     Erin 💽 (erincandescent@queer.af)'s status on Thursday, 17-Nov-2022 00:09:16 JST Erin 💽

     in reply to

     • infinite love ⴳ
     • mralanorth
     • blaine
     • Dr. Johnathan Flowers

     @blaine @trwnh @mralanorth @shengokai I deeply agree - the local/federated timelines are both some of Mastodon's best innovations and greatest anti features

     You can imagine opt in 'groups' which (optionally) have three levels of timeline:

     • Intentional/Directed posts by members
     • All posts by members (-> analogous to local)
     • That plus all posts by people members follow (-> analogous to federated)
   • Embed this notice
     blaine (blaine@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 17-Nov-2022 00:09:17 JST blaine

     in reply to

     • infinite love ⴳ
     • mralanorth
     • Dr. Johnathan Flowers

     @trwnh @mralanorth @shengokai really good insights. ❤️

     I think we collectively need a map of fracture lines in the Fediverse. Not as an oppositional thing, but as a way to navigate intent.

     For me, those are strongly related to medium; e.g. the lines between pixelfed and mastodon are clear, even though it is possible to boost between them, it's a bit weird.

     Mastodon's "sin" is that it tied communities to instances, rather than making communities more like mailing lists, things that you can join

   • Embed this notice
     infinite love ⴳ (trwnh@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 17-Nov-2022 00:09:18 JST infinite love ⴳ

     in reply to

     • mralanorth
     • blaine
     • Dr. Johnathan Flowers

     @mralanorth @blaine @shengokai And really, the divide between messaging and publishing explains more than you would realize at first.

     For example: people's attitudes toward archival and full-text search. It's reasonable to have those things on your personal website, but no one wants their emails or messages being searched or archived. That we have marked them "public" is, I think, contradictory -- they are only marked this way because we want other people to see us, and it is a technical limit.

   • Embed this notice
     infinite love ⴳ (trwnh@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 17-Nov-2022 00:09:19 JST infinite love ⴳ

     in reply to

     • mralanorth
     • blaine
     • Dr. Johnathan Flowers

     @mralanorth @blaine @shengokai Ultimately what I think the discrepancy comes down to, and why people are opposed to quotes in this space, is that fedi is more about conversation than publishing. It is skinned to look like a public platform, but in actuality it operates like email or a messaging app.

     I actually think quotes have their place, but specifically on an actual website, while fedi is awkwardly halfway in-between being a website/platform and being a messaging service...

   • Embed this notice
     mralanorth@ioc.exchange's status on Thursday, 17-Nov-2022 00:09:20 JST mralanorth

     in reply to

     • blaine
     • Dr. Johnathan Flowers

     @blaine @shengokai

     Honest question: what is a "QT", other than a tweet with a link to another tweet in it? I use Twitter and use the quote tweet button essentially as I would for a tweet with any other link. Like, "Hey look at this". So what's the issue with quote tweets?

   • Embed this notice
     infinite love ⴳ (trwnh@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 17-Nov-2022 00:09:20 JST infinite love ⴳ

     in reply to

     • mralanorth
     • blaine
     • Dr. Johnathan Flowers

     @mralanorth @blaine @shengokai In essence, they strip context. Replies are easily visible as part of the same thread, but the QT takes it out of that thread and puts it into a new context. People browsing the original thread cannot easily see your quote. People seeing the quote can dip into the thread, but multiple layers of quotes is a pain to navigate.

     I liken it to, if this were an old BBS-style forum, it would be like creating a new thread to discuss one person's post in a different thread.

   • Embed this notice
     blaine (blaine@mastodon.social)'s status on Thursday, 17-Nov-2022 00:09:21 JST blaine

     in reply to

     • Dr. Johnathan Flowers

     @shengokai ?

     Similarly, I discussed a few options to make this better today. (https://mastodon.social/@blaine/109349477242394640) Very little resistance observed! Some people are lukewarm, but most seemed happy with the idea that they could opt out of seeing QTs, which seems fair.

     The elephant in the room is that it's totally unreasonable and unsustainable for Eugen to be the effective sole arbiter here.

   • Embed this notice
     Dr. Johnathan Flowers (shengokai@zirk.us)'s status on Thursday, 17-Nov-2022 00:09:23 JST Dr. Johnathan Flowers

     in reply to

     Context, in this case, matters because the functions of Mastodon are different from the functions of twitter and the differences will matter for how the QT will be used socially.

     Again, this is something that anti-QT folks miss because they are focused on the FACT of the history of QT use and not the possibility of its implementation in a new environment with different affordances and resources.

   • Embed this notice
     Dr. Johnathan Flowers (shengokai@zirk.us)'s status on Thursday, 17-Nov-2022 00:09:25 JST Dr. Johnathan Flowers

     in reply to

     • Eugen Rochko

     That is, if @Gargron is serious about introducing the QT feature, the implementation would not be a cold one as was the case with twitter itself back in the day. The fediverse QT feature would benefit from the hindsight of how the feature enabled abuse on the bird site.

     This is a point that a lot of anti QT takes miss: it seems to assume that we cannot, and will not, learn from what happened on the bird site with QTs. It assumes a direct replication of the QT function which ignores context.

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     Dr. Johnathan Flowers (shengokai@zirk.us)'s status on Thursday, 17-Nov-2022 00:09:27 JST Dr. Johnathan Flowers

     • Eugen Rochko

     Okay, this is something that is worth linking to as it will take a longer post.

     https://mastodon.social/@HelloAndrew/109351796734280182

     I would say that @Gargron should consider implementing quote tweets only with an eye to how the function will change behavior across instances and how adding the feature could introduce new and unique forms of abuse as it interacts with the unique nature of the fediverse.