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   anna (navi@social.vlhl.dev)'s status on Thursday, 17-Jul-2025 07:29:22 JST anna
   i honestly can't with people complaining that a init system, which has the job of bringing your system up, and execute the commands necessary to do that...
   
   is turing complete therefore bad
   
   ?????????
   • Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.
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     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: (lanodan@queer.hacktivis.me)'s status on Thursday, 17-Jul-2025 07:30:52 JST Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell:

     in reply to
     @navi This kind of stuff is especially funny when systemd can get stuck into a loop (specially stop jobs kind).
     And also when you look and the systemd service file calls a shell/perl/… wrapper for configuration needs as environ isn't everything.
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     Rich Felker (dalias@hachyderm.io)'s status on Thursday, 17-Jul-2025 07:39:03 JST Rich Felker

     in reply to

     @navi Generally in order to be able to evaluate that a critical component is correct/secure/predictable in behavior, it's desirable for the "language" used to configure it to be as weak as possible.

     I don't know the exact context you're talking about but I would imagine that's the idea here.

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     anna (navi@social.vlhl.dev)'s status on Thursday, 17-Jul-2025 08:04:56 JST anna

     in reply to

     • Rich Felker
     @dalias the context is pretty much someone shooting down openrc and proclaiming systemd "the only good one", that since openrc uses shell scripts for it's system service definitions, unit files are better because .ini is not turing complete
     
     i don't feel like it's applicable to service definitions (in this context at least), the person said that unit files being non turing complete stops people adding "all sorts of crazy logic", but they don't really, people still put wrapper shell scripts in ExecStart, or concoct pseudo script with 20 ExecStartPre lines
     
     what actually helps reduce the crazy (and usually faulty) logic is the init system providing interfaces for things that most services will need -- and that is something we're working on a lot in openrc
     Haelwenn /элвэн/ :triskell: likes this.