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1. Embed this notice
   Brodie Robertson (brodieonlinux@mstdn.social)'s status on Monday, 07-Jul-2025 12:50:37 JST Brodie Robertson

   If you're still on X11, I want to know why, I don't want theoretical things you could do but don't actually care about. But the actual real reasons that X11 is keeping you on it.

   Why are you still an X11 user in 2025?

   • Embed this notice
     Becca (bweller@mstdn.social)'s status on Monday, 07-Jul-2025 12:53:10 JST Becca

     in reply to

     @BrodieOnLinux Because it works and I know where all the tools are? I'm sure they'll swap it out for Wayland at some point, but I'm not missing anything that makes me want to switch.

     source: gaming and daily driving linux for 20 odd years. my steam account is old enough to drink and works fine on linux.

     ubuntu mate, also, because... i use my computer for stuff. i dont actually want things to be flashy and in different places.

   • Embed this notice
     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br)'s status on Monday, 07-Jul-2025 13:24:30 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to
     I have X configured just the way I like, with extensions and configurations to work with my screens, my TV, my VNC preferences, my scripts to switch between external and internal laptop displays, and last I tried Wayland, none of those configurations and scripts worked, and it was generally a step backward, while I was assured it was ready and great. now, there was no point in my wasting my time learning how to do something that I already knew how to do elsewhere, just because someone else expects me to get used to doing things their way, or to keep testing something whose primary interest was in rendering something I liked obsolete, and taking away the possibility of tunneling X through SSH and generally opening windows remotely; I've lived with that for decades, and taking that away is an unthinkable loss. the expectation and attitude that such loss, waste of time and imposing push for experimenting with software that is not even meant to bring me any advantage whatsoever to make up for the losses is just insulting and disrespectful, more so for someone who's neurodivergent (autistic traits such as cognitive rigidity, need for predictability, and fondness of regularity, plus pervasive desire for autonomy AKA pathological demand avoidance), but unfortunately they're all too common in the proprietary software scene. last thing we need in the free software scene is for the authoritarians and the clueless to import more of these horrible traits from their proprietary counterparts, or for people to get used to waste time learning how to get things back working the way they were before someone somewhere thought it was a great idea to push a breaking update onto them. https://blog.lx.oliva.nom.br/2020-03-15-new-dawn is about this not-quite-new social problem we're inheriting but should resist much harder.
     
     翠星石 likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Brodie Robertson (brodieonlinux@mstdn.social)'s status on Monday, 07-Jul-2025 20:02:43 JST Brodie Robertson

     in reply to

     • shtrophic

     @shtrophic That's actually really interesting, thanks for the link

   • Embed this notice
     shtrophic (shtrophic@chaos.social)'s status on Monday, 07-Jul-2025 20:02:45 JST shtrophic

     in reply to

     @BrodieOnLinux there are a couple of opinions in a recent #openbsd mailing list thread about "the future of Xenocara" (which is the openbsd X11 implementation): https://marc.info/?t=174999227400001&r=1&w=2

   • Embed this notice
     Brodie Robertson (brodieonlinux@mstdn.social)'s status on Monday, 07-Jul-2025 21:08:36 JST Brodie Robertson

     in reply to

     • w

     @w Your browser?

   • Embed this notice
     w (w@11n.org)'s status on Monday, 07-Jul-2025 21:08:37 JST w

     in reply to
     why am I still using software that's under active development and had a release three weeks ago?
     
   • Embed this notice
     Brodie Robertson (brodieonlinux@mstdn.social)'s status on Monday, 07-Jul-2025 22:08:11 JST Brodie Robertson

     in reply to

     • w

     @w You shouldn't be using that browser

   • Embed this notice
     w (w@11n.org)'s status on Monday, 07-Jul-2025 22:08:13 JST w

     in reply to
     @BrodieOnLinux@mstdn.social my browser hasn't had a release in nearly a year. Xorg server had a release in June
     
   • Embed this notice
     Brodie Robertson (brodieonlinux@mstdn.social)'s status on Monday, 07-Jul-2025 22:42:56 JST Brodie Robertson

     in reply to

     • Maxi 12x 💉
     • Elias Probst

     @eliasp @frumble ydotool is good but there's a lot that it can't do

   • Embed this notice
     Elias Probst (eliasp@mastodon.social)'s status on Monday, 07-Jul-2025 22:42:57 JST Elias Probst

     in reply to

     • Maxi 12x 💉

     @frumble there's ydotool [1] as an xdotool replacement.

     @BrodieOnLinux

     [1] https://github.com/ReimuNotMoe/ydotool

   • Embed this notice
     Maxi 12x 💉 (frumble@chaos.social)'s status on Monday, 07-Jul-2025 22:42:58 JST Maxi 12x 💉

     in reply to

     @BrodieOnLinux With KDE #Plasma:

     1) I hate the unconfigurable trackpad gestures so much! I have a custom config under X.Org with libinput-gestures. Better config is in development for Plasma at the moment. Please come fast.

     2) Cannot use xdotool for scripts under WL. Also no xbindkeys.

     3) I cannot bind several special keys on my keyboard due to current limits of the #Wayland session. E.g. the Num key.

     …

   • Embed this notice
     Boiling Steam (boilingsteam@mastodon.cloud)'s status on Monday, 07-Jul-2025 23:57:12 JST Boiling Steam

     in reply to

     • w

     @BrodieOnLinux @w Netsurf had a release end of 2023 last. Are you saying it's not OK to use it? https://www.netsurf-browser.org/downloads/gtk/

   • Embed this notice
     Brodie Robertson (brodieonlinux@mstdn.social)'s status on Monday, 07-Jul-2025 23:57:12 JST Brodie Robertson

     in reply to

     • Boiling Steam
     • w

     @boilingsteam @w correct you shouldn't be using it

   • Embed this notice
     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br)'s status on Tuesday, 08-Jul-2025 03:26:12 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • Taylan (Now 18% More Deranged)
     if the purpose of Wayland was to divide the community of users and of developers, and the efforts to develop and maintain windowing systems, it's working great, actually.
     
     BTW, a system's purpose is what it does
     
     CC: @BrodieOnLinux@mstdn.social
     
   • Embed this notice
     Taylan (Now 18% More Deranged) (taylan@fedi.feministwiki.org)'s status on Tuesday, 08-Jul-2025 03:26:13 JST Taylan (Now 18% More Deranged)

     in reply to
     @BrodieOnLinux I have different sets of weird bugs with both X11 and Wayland but X11 seems to be the less buggy one right now.
     
     I wish Wayland never existed. 16 years later it's still not better than X11, so what's the point. They should have tried to improve X instead.
     
     I've also used X11 forwarding in the past and may do so again at some point. It's supposed to be possible with Wayland but I already know how it works with X11 and you literally just need ssh.
     翠星石 likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Brodie Robertson (brodieonlinux@mstdn.social)'s status on Tuesday, 08-Jul-2025 09:32:56 JST Brodie Robertson

     in reply to

     • w

     @w If you don't enable javascript that's a very different case from a normal browser

   • Embed this notice
     w (w@11n.org)'s status on Tuesday, 08-Jul-2025 09:32:59 JST w

     in reply to

     • w
     @w@11n.org @BrodieOnLinux@mstdn.social I mostly use links2, not sure why you think I shouldn't
     
   • Embed this notice
     w (w@11n.org)'s status on Tuesday, 08-Jul-2025 09:33:01 JST w

     in reply to
     why not?
     
   • Embed this notice
     翠星石 (suiseiseki@freesoftwareextremist.com)'s status on Tuesday, 08-Jul-2025 22:16:27 JST 翠星石

     in reply to
     @BrodieOnLinux Since it actually tends to work and doesn't have added latency.
   • Embed this notice
     nyanide :nyancat_rainbow::nyancat_body::nyancat_face: (nyanide@lab.nyanide.com)'s status on Wednesday, 09-Jul-2025 12:16:18 JST nyanide :nyancat_rainbow::nyancat_body::nyancat_face:

     in reply to
     @BrodieOnLinux I use it on most of my hardware because it's just what I'm used to, except for one machine where I went FULL WOKE and am using the plasma wayland session because that just works out of the box compared to X11 which has weird issues with server acceleration.
   • Embed this notice
     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br)'s status on Friday, 11-Jul-2025 10:46:56 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva
     And on top of all that, it performs worse, and would add an impact like Spectre & Meltdown mitigations did. https://techrights.org/n/2025/07/10/Igor_Ljubuncic_Once_Again_Shows_That_for_Technical_Reasons_Wayl.shtml
     
     It seems that the right question is: why would anyone be using Wayland at this point, if not for being lured into it?
     
     CC: @BrodieOnLinux@mstdn.social
     
   • Embed this notice
     daltux (daltux@snac.daltux.net)'s status on Friday, 11-Jul-2025 14:47:40 JST daltux

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva
     :xorg: Is the fact that X simply does what we want while the alternative isn't truly ready not a good enough reason? Why can't someone choose to keep using it?
     
     I fully support the points made by @lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br I'm also another busy person who tries Wayland periodically when people claim it's finally ready – and unfortunately, I consistently find it's not there yet, at least for me. If it works well enough for others, that's great! Let's keep choices available.
     
     CC: @BrodieOnLinux@mstdn.social
     
     #X #Xorg #Wayland #GNU #GUI
     
     Alexandre Oliva likes this.
   • Embed this notice
     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br)'s status on Friday, 11-Jul-2025 17:39:40 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • m0xEE
     I'm happy for you that Wayland was worth your time to learn how to configure it (if any custom configuration was needed) and that it solved problems for you.
     
     How does any of that justify pulling the rug from under me by removing X11 and imposing Wayland's known problems and overheads on me?
     
     CC: @BrodieOnLinux@mstdn.social
     
   • Embed this notice
     m0xEE (m0xee@nosh0b10.m0xee.net)'s status on Friday, 11-Jul-2025 17:39:41 JST m0xEE

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva
     @lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br
     I was "lured into it" by the promise that it would fix screen tearing on scrolling pages in Firefox — and I was given precisely that! I was never a GNOME user and I'm very unlikely to ever use it and it's even less likely that I would ever use KDE because I hate Qt with passion since Trolltech days — I'm mentioning it because most benchmarks I've seen were performed in KDE environment, there might be some peculiarities there. I've switched from Xorg dwm-based setup to a similarly lightweight Sway-based one, like I said — to fix the screen tearing. It solved my problem and I never looked back. Now I use a similar setup on three different laptops, all of them have Intel integrated video — I know there are issues with Nvidia, and maybe the performance with ATI/AMD is subpar, but for me it works flawlessly. Sure, there are minor bugs here and there, but nothing big and nothing that can't be worked around.
     Worth noting that I use neither systemd, nor pulseaudio or pipewire — I'm not a fan of "bloated" software, I use Void Linux almost universally, so I have an option of avoiding them. To me those are redundant — they only add complexity, but solve no problem — but Wayland isn't, it did solve my problem!
     I don't think there is a conspiracy — I think there are lots of people like me, for whom it just works. And as it just works, they are less vocal about it.
     And I suspect that a lot of these people are users of lightweight wlroots-based tiling window managers, that is probably why features like precise window positioning do not get implemented, I can't be certain, but maybe a significant part of the community just doesn't care 🤷
     
     True, there are synthetic tests in which it can underperform — but that is what they are: synthetic tests! I never have to render 25 thousands of fishes in my real life workloads, 80% of software I use is TUI software and Sway renders Alacritty windows just fine — my battery life is excellent. Maybe the fact that there is no screen tearing and it having to wait for vertical synchronisation is what causes lower frame rates? I'm not sure, it's just a theory that would require profiling to confirm — I'm not sure I'm interested in doing it as I don't want to write an article about how great Wayland is, for me it works fine already 😁
     
     @BrodieOnLinux@mstdn.social
     
   • Embed this notice
     Brodie Robertson (brodieonlinux@mstdn.social)'s status on Sunday, 03-Aug-2025 12:02:18 JST Brodie Robertson

     in reply to

     • Maxi 12x 💉

     @frumble What is FaXistan?

   • Embed this notice
     Maxi 12x 💉 (frumble@chaos.social)'s status on Sunday, 03-Aug-2025 12:02:20 JST Maxi 12x 💉

     in reply to

     @BrodieOnLinux Brodie, you got over 70 replies on Mastodon and not even showed one of them in this video. Instead, you showed lots of comments on FaXistan, why are you even still on there man? You also didn’t link to any of the threads in the video description (you said you would do it in the video) and your Mastodon profile link on YT even directs to a long-moved-on-from instance.

     https://youtu.be/yURfsJDOw1E

   • Embed this notice
     Maxi 12x 💉 (frumble@chaos.social)'s status on Sunday, 03-Aug-2025 12:02:21 JST Maxi 12x 💉

     in reply to

     @BrodieOnLinux
     9) I have several scripts for managing my monitor, AVR and TV outputs. The last time I looked into this, it seemed the Plasma WL session lacked in providing adequate CLI interfaces for a full feature migration.

   • Embed this notice
     Maxi 12x 💉 (frumble@chaos.social)'s status on Sunday, 03-Aug-2025 12:02:23 JST Maxi 12x 💉

     in reply to

     @BrodieOnLinux …
     8) Remote desktops are a nightmare! I’m using Nomachine on X.Org to help on family computers and it not only has a GUI lightyears from this KDE KCbr-Idontknow, it also is instantly fast instead of the second lag (!) on the same powerful machines with the native screen sharing, has clipboard sync AND IT WORKS EACH TIME!!! The native remote desktop in Plasma only works accidentally for me, even in the same session. It feels like alpha state software.

   • Embed this notice
     Maxi 12x 💉 (frumble@chaos.social)'s status on Sunday, 03-Aug-2025 12:02:24 JST Maxi 12x 💉

     in reply to

     @BrodieOnLinux …
     7) I have a custom Atmolight behind my monitor, using boblight-x11 is superior, but I was able to recreate 90% of the config feeling with HyperHDR, still not the same. The necessary screen recording experience for it is also still really bad and I conceptually dislike that it is 5x more resource-heavy than the screen color grabbing under X.Org.
     Also, so far no easy possibilty to start/stop it with a key binding like the boblight setup under X.Org

     …

   • Embed this notice
     Maxi 12x 💉 (frumble@chaos.social)'s status on Sunday, 03-Aug-2025 12:02:25 JST Maxi 12x 💉

     in reply to

     @BrodieOnLinux …
     4) I really like my #Redshift config and cannot use it with the #Wayland session. The built-in replacement severely lacks features and behaves not how I expect it.

     5) The scaling is weird, I cannot set it to the exact same DPI like I have used with my 4K monitor in HiDPI for a decade under X.Org. Everything gets a bit bigger under WL.

     6) Why have my mice a whole different acceleration curve under WL?!

     …

   • Embed this notice
     Brodie Robertson (brodieonlinux@mstdn.social)'s status on Sunday, 03-Aug-2025 12:03:42 JST Brodie Robertson

     in reply to

     • Maxi 12x 💉

     @frumble Also the threads are in the description, they were the entire time