@blenderdumbass@mastodon.online My biggest issue is that he doesn't mention the free software movement. Not mentioning it will not make more people turn to our side, because how will they ever find out?
But at least telling people to stop using proprietary software big tech is a good message. Most people would definitely benefit eliminating proprietary big tech out of their lives.
But the issue of software freedom is not addressed.
@hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info@blenderdumbass@mastodon.online All I can say is that people who already hate proprietary big tech, such as the privacy enthusiast "degoogle" crowd type people are a little easier to convince than the people who absolutely love big tech, such as Apple cult worshipers.
But this type of of stuff can also backfire. If they get too influenced by the "open source" or "infosec" type brainrot they might become very prejudiced towards the free software movement instead.
Like the conversation I recently had with whoever is running the GrapheneOS fedi account. There's probably some very smart people working there in terms of technical skills, but their experience focusing on very specific things that they find interesting have clouded their judgement and they are no longer able to see the big picture about what should actually be important for their users.
@SuperDicq@blenderdumbass :drake_dislike: If they get too influenced by the "open source" or "infosec" type brainrot they might become very prejudiced towards the free software movement instead :drake_like: if free software enthusiasts blast them with the full force of their autism from the get go they might become very prejudiced towards the free software movement instead
@mangeurdenuage@shitposter.world@hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info I can't deny that boarding the subject suiesuiki style is a deterrent.I mean I think pretty much everyone agrees with that. This style of communication is not how I introduce people to free software in real life. Especially not when I give talks or presentations and such.
This style of :gnujihad: :saintignucius: :gnutroll: shitposting is to be used here on fedi.
But I do tend to avoid the "open source" or "infosec bro" rhetoric however. I do think these angles are more often than not counterproductive to get the point of the free software movement across.
@hakui@SuperDicq The thread he describe in question was an absolute mess on the side of grapheneOS, many people had very reasonable and various arguments yet the responses where almost schizophrenic from the graphene account.
But I can't deny that boarding the subject suiesuiki style is a deterrent. But you also have to start somewhere.
@hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info@mangeurdenuage@shitposter.world I honestly still believes Richard Stallman gives very good talks and is very good at explaining what the free software movement is about to non-technical people. If you actually actively listen to his talks from an unbiased perspective I think they are very good. I mean that's also what convinced me to join the movement in the first place.
Unfortunately his reputation has been damaged to the point where not a lot of people still want to listen to what he has to say in the first place.
@mangeurdenuage@SuperDicq >you also have to start somewhere which is what exactly pewdiepie is doing, make it accessible enough so that the largest possible batch of viewers are compelled to switch over of those people a subset will eventually go deeper into free software
whereas if you insist he interjects from the beginning he might instead turn off a portion of viewers that would have otherwise slowly made their way down the rabbit hole later on
The Free Software Distribution Guidelines do not allow this, which I think is understandable, because of the position that the GNU project is in it can not in good consciousness endorse projects that promote things that they disagree with.
Personally however, I do not think this is as big of an issue. I am fine with it if documentation explains how to install proprietary software for users that want this, as long as the documentation states clearly that doing these steps are not recommended and it is officially not supported.
@hakui@SuperDicq You're right but you also have to remember it''s a double edge sword. As much as people have to find the truth themselves some also need help to find it. Helping them by sharing knowledge on the subject will do that. In the end it's not the passage of information that is an issue it's how it's done. And that's pedagogy.
For example, it's nice that pewdiepie share's info about gnu/linux. But his motivations also miss some part that should have been an annex which are the long term effects.
Because if you don't warn people about the effects of, lets say, installing binary blobs and the like, then issues caused by these won't be understood and people will throw their anger at the OS/distro while it has nothing to do it with, in this case it's hardware manufacturers.
Same thing for example about proprietary video games, you can say to people that you can do X and Y step to make the thing work. But you also have to warn people about the long term effects of doing so without demanding for basic human digital rights. Again this should be an annex as it would be mainly watched for people interested by it.
@mangeurdenuage@shitposter.world@hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info I am not sure, I honestly have my doubts. I believe it is impossible to get this deep into GNU/Linux without ever having seen anything related to GNU or the free software movement.
I believe he is actively trying to avoid mentioning it, like many people in the "open source" camp do.
@mangeurdenuage@shitposter.world@hakui@tuusin.misono-ya.info The only thing that I don't know is if he is avoiding the topic because he actually is actually on the side of "open source" or if he's avoiding the topic because he thinks it won't capture his mainstream audience. But he is definitely avoiding it on purpose.
@SuperDicq@hakui >as long as the documentation states clearly that doing these steps are not recommended and it is officially not supported. Add a few warnings too.
Nowadays they do longer display warnings on documentation pages about proprietary software, and they have started including proprietary software by default on the installation ISO. It's very sad to see them fall off the slippery slope like this.
Specifically the Grayjay incident stands out to me. Where he started actively promoting his "source available" software as if it were "open source".
I actually messaged Louis about this on Matrix and he started defending this and said that denying people freedom was good actually so his developers could make money or some other bullshit argument like that.
Louis Rossmann is not on our side.
However I do agree with Louis Rossmann when he says that the GrapheneOS developers are stupid.
@SuperDicq@hakui >I believe he is actively trying to avoid mentioning it, like many people in the "open source" camp do. Louis has done that too. But I don't think it's malice. My opinion it's because the free/libre side has a negative reputation, caused mainly by the corpos controlling the "open source" movement and of course people with bad pedagogical skills. Yet another psyop people are played into.
@SuperDicq@hakui >because he actually is actually on the side of "open source" or if he's avoiding the topic because he thinks it won't capture his mainstream audience. Both can be true. He doesn't necessarily understand the difference between the "open source" movement and software freedom.
@SuperDicq@hakui >but it is make people stop using proprietary software. >as long as it is free software. I agree with this but with the condition that for longer term most of it should be GPLv3 otherwise it doesn't change the issue much as we can see the fiasco with android for example.
But I unfortunately have had multiple years of experience working as a Magento developer that Adobe has under their "open source" doctrine.
It was absolutely terrible. Adobe in particular is really fucking bad when it comes to accepting patches.
First of all when you do they require you sign a CLA that gives all copyrights of your free code to them so they can include in proprietary things in the future.
And secondly every single patch you submit has to go through 25 code corpo code reviewer drones and they get back to you 6 months between each message.
The company I worked at had it's own repository that at some point contained over 500 patches for Magento that Adobe did not want to merge into upstream.
I never want to work with any Adobe product again, even if it is in theory free software or "open source", rather.
@SuperDicq@hakui@mangeurdenuage Hbomberguy(another big youtuber) is making video about evils of adobe, I have preemptive have written email to him and shared that link, I hope he does actually read it.
Like at some point Adobe just decided that ElasticSearch is a hard dependency now for the search feature even though it always had worked just fine using just MariaDB.
So then everyone had to install ElasticSearch to continue using Magento and then two versions later they were like "nevermind" and they instead started pushing search using Adobe Cloud instead... And I believe now OpenSearch is also an option again?
But I assume he probably wants his video to focus more on Adobe's more widely known desktop applications, as most regular people who don't work in webdevelopment have never even heard of Magento.