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1. Embed this notice
   LFA (lfa@hostux.social)'s status on Saturday, 14-Jun-2025 00:14:01 JST LFA

   #FOSS is all about options:
   - I chose not to use #RedHat systems 28 years ago.
   - I chose not te use #GNOME 15 years ago
   - I chose not to use #SystemD 6 years ago.
   - I choose to accelerate the migration of all the #Linux based systems I can to #BSD systems because:
   - I choose to keep up with the #UNIX way
   - I choose to use stable systems which don't change for the sake of change
   - I choose to be part of healthier communities, that don't promote monoculture or fall so easily into arrogance

   • Embed this notice
     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br)'s status on Saturday, 14-Jun-2025 00:13:53 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • Oook
     I'd rather go for what you call complotism than with the naïvetté of assuming that interests of exploiter corporations are aligned with those of free software users
     
     it's really simple IMHO: major distros focus on the interests of those who make them and their deep-pocket users, whose use cases and preferences for managing their multiple datacenters are alien and often opposed to those of the majority of the users who manage a few computers at home and maybe some VPS hosts out there. a lot of essential software for the former is not of interest to the latter, and vice-versa.
     
     CC: @lfa@hostux.social
     
   • Embed this notice
     Oook (oook@im-in.space)'s status on Saturday, 14-Jun-2025 00:13:55 JST Oook

     in reply to

     @lfa This is traight complotism. Regardless of who they are, those that sign the checks have no interest in making linux worse than it was. There is no BIG LINUX trying to inoculate poison in your veins through wayland and systemd. Just different technical choices and goals.

     Some people want stability, other want evolution. Anyone place the cursor where they want but it is always a compromise.

   • Embed this notice
     LFA (lfa@hostux.social)'s status on Saturday, 14-Jun-2025 00:13:56 JST LFA

     in reply to

     • Oook

     @oook Maybe you should check who is founding the major projects and who is signing the checks for the main devs. I'm not against people making money, but maybe that gives everyone some insight into why certain things happen the way they do.

     The fact that something is widely adopted and/or it's newer does not mean it's good or better. Windows 11 is newer and widely adopted, but I don't think it's better. Anyway, nothing prevents either of us from using what suits us best.

   • Embed this notice
     Oook (oook@im-in.space)'s status on Saturday, 14-Jun-2025 00:13:57 JST Oook

     in reply to

     @lfa I don't think the word enshittification apply here. Wayland and Systemd may not be your cup of tea but their goal is to improve the state of the linux OS and the distros would not include it if it really made their distro objectively worse.

     Keep in mind that wayland was created *by the X11 dev*, not against them. Because they realized the tool didn't meet the demand of the current and future desktop usage and the code was deemed difficult to maintain. There are areas were we have - hopefully temporarily - lost something, like in accessibility, but a lot of users enjoy scrolling a text or moving a window without the typical screen tearing of X11 for instance.

     Systemd has also been widely adopted because a number of distro maintainers and system administrators do like its features.

     Anyway I like that we still have the choice. Nothing prevents you to run xorg + a traditionnal window manager + an old init system, regardless if you are using a linux or BSD kernel.

   • Embed this notice
     LFA (lfa@hostux.social)'s status on Saturday, 14-Jun-2025 00:13:59 JST LFA

     in reply to

     • Oook

     @oook Basically because 28 years ago the Linux based systems ecosystem was not enshittified as it is right now, and back then #Debian GNU/Linux was right for me. As I said FOSS is all about options (and choices)

   • Embed this notice
     Oook (oook@im-in.space)'s status on Saturday, 14-Jun-2025 00:14:00 JST Oook

     in reply to

     @lfa I see a pattern. One would ask why you didn't choose to use BSD system 28 year ago already!

   • Embed this notice
     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br)'s status on Saturday, 14-Jun-2025 04:09:57 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • Oook
     there's a fundamental flaw in your assumption: a majority of the distros is downstream from a few corporate-controlled ones, and deviating from their poor choices ends up being too burdensome.
     
     corporations, in turn, reap even more of the benefit by controlling the technology, including its future direction, to stay one step ahead, and by reducing software diversity to reduce their support costs, so they actively suppress alternatives not only in their own offerings, but in the community at large, so that developments more likely interoperate with their choices
     
     CC: @lfa@hostux.social
     
   • Embed this notice
     Oook (oook@im-in.space)'s status on Saturday, 14-Jun-2025 04:09:58 JST Oook

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo @lfa The most important part is :

     - an overwhelming majority of distros, many that aren't financed by these "exploiter corporations" chose to use these technologies, because they have benefits.

     - there is still choice, linux is just a kernel and you can build a distro around it without systemd, wayland or even the glibc.And such distros exist.

   • Embed this notice
     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br)'s status on Saturday, 14-Jun-2025 11:02:21 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • Oook
     dude! seriously? they're even pushing LLM now, just like the rest of the enshittifiers. are you a shill, or just really really naïve?
     
     CC: @lfa@hostux.social
     
   • Embed this notice
     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br)'s status on Monday, 16-Jun-2025 12:18:27 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • Oook
     oh, I'm sure there are people curious about LLM, and there are both people and corporations interested in what LLM can do for them. but if I'm stuck in an information bubble, I'm in the one where people get the immense harms that LLMs bring onto most workers while empowering their bosses to exploit them even more than before. see, for example, https://pluralistic.net/2025/05/27/rancid-vibe-coding/ including the links to popular reactions to LLM rollouts. now the question is, what is your information bubble gullibly accepting about LLM?
     
   • Embed this notice
     Oook (oook@im-in.space)'s status on Monday, 16-Jun-2025 12:18:28 JST Oook

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo How is that relevant? You like it or not there are people interested in LLMs outside of big corporations. Code forge are full of LLM related hobby projects for instance. I think you are stuck in an informatiom bubble.

   • Embed this notice
     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br)'s status on Monday, 16-Jun-2025 12:31:52 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • Oook
     are you really ignorant about the long history of corporate influence on debian, or are you just pretending to be?
     
     I don't know much about the others, but I do know that once everyone else was strongarmed into submission to certain pieces of not-quite-free software, it's increasingly costly to hold one's own. so it's not like the corporate pressure doesn't affect them just for being in other branches of the tree. people and businesses remain stuck at ms-windows, of all nightmares, for reasons like that.
     
     CC: @lfa@hostux.social
     
   • Embed this notice
     Oook (oook@im-in.space)'s status on Monday, 16-Jun-2025 12:31:54 JST Oook

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo @lfa That only explain those based on redhat / ubuntu based oned (I don't know many Suse derivatives).

     What about Debian, Archlinux, openmandriva and those based on it?

     Slackware is still going strong and gentoo still allow one to build his system without systemd.or wayland and I am glad for it but most distro builders don't mind. And they would not based their distro on Fedora or ubuntu if they did mind as they have plenty to choose from.

   • Embed this notice
     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br)'s status on Monday, 16-Jun-2025 18:00:41 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • Oook
     it doesn't make it immune to corporate pressure either. and it's hardly only Canonical, that's small fish at this point. I see you haven't answered my question, and that you're not interested in a debate of ideas, having jumped to name calling. that's not welcome.
     
     acknowledging that corporations put profit ahead of anything else, including user preferences and interests, is not exactly a communist PoV, BTW, it's just understanding (rather than denying) the reality we live in. and it's not at all related with dictatorships.
     
     CC: @lfa@hostux.social
     
   • Embed this notice
     Oook (oook@im-in.space)'s status on Monday, 16-Jun-2025 18:00:43 JST Oook

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo @lfa The fact there are debian developers paid by corporate companies such as Cannonical doesn't mean it is not run democratically. But maybe you prefer subscribing to anti corporation / communist dictatorship...there are many distros/open source projects running under benevolent dictatorship, you should be able to find something fitting for you quite easily.

   • Embed this notice
     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br)'s status on Monday, 16-Jun-2025 18:19:28 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • Oook
     none of these statements change the fact that LLMs are being pushed ferociously in order to force most workers into degrading reverse-centaur positions, and to devalue intellectual work that LLMs are unable to perform, but are being promoted as if they could, to place workers in more vulnerable conditions and to fool customers that fall for the great lie (sounds a bit like A.I., doesn't it?) before the bubble bursts.
     
   • Embed this notice
     Oook (oook@im-in.space)'s status on Monday, 16-Jun-2025 18:19:30 JST Oook

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo Your opinion and mine do not really matter.

     Fact is there are people who are:
     - anti LLM
     - pro LLM

     And a whole lot of others who are somewhere in between in the spectrum:
     - sceptics
     - cautiously curious
     - those who don't mind as long as LLM is run locally
     - those who believe in ethically trained models
     - those who feel they are useful but are afraid of becoming intellectually lazy and losing skills in the process
     - those that feel they can't fight it and would rather know how to leverage it to not be left behind
     - a combination of all these sentiments above.

     Life is not black and white and you can't paint it in a "corporate / pro LLM / BAD", "individual people / against LLM / GÖOD" there are people anywhere in these spectrum be them open source or proprietary developers or users. So there is no reason all distros would have the same politics/guidelines regarding LLMs and this is independent of corporate influence.

   • Embed this notice
     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br)'s status on Monday, 16-Jun-2025 18:23:58 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • Oook
     now, that some workers are underinformed about the harms that LLMs are going to impose on them is no news: lots of people haven't seen things coming, and have taken positions that harmed themselves, particularly when it comes to working conditions. people and corporations alike often trade short-term gains for long-term improvements, but the effects on natural people tend to be more ruinous to themselves than the mere loss of profits that corporations experience.
     
   • Embed this notice
     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br)'s status on Monday, 16-Jun-2025 18:33:15 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • Oook
     again, name calling (not me, but DDs), by twisting my words. not cool. I'm getting tired of this kind of dishonest debating.
     
     your observation is not entirely wrong, but they're also missing the point. that the points you bring up matter to people who pushed forcefully for those replacements doesn't invalidate the others for whom the replacements didn't and still don't make things better, because their needs and concerns and preferences and usecases are different from those of megacorporations.
     
     free software could have kept on serving them all well if the forceful-pushers hadn't actively undermined the alternatives. them problem, as I pointed out initially, has been the removal of choice.
     
     CC: @lfa@hostux.social
     
   • Embed this notice
     Oook (oook@im-in.space)'s status on Monday, 16-Jun-2025 18:33:16 JST Oook

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo @lfa So according to you debian is run by muppets who don't find any value in systemd and wayland but whose strings are pulled by corporate entities?

     That is not really my observation. X11 has been abandoned by its own developers as a solution for the future because they know it fits usages that are long past and virtually no security model. SystemD do provide interesting features (units, timers, spawning containers) that fits current usage of Linux OS and helped reduce boot time. Wayland is improving the security model, quality and performances. There are still areas of improvements and areas where X11 works best for now (i.e. accessibility), but that doesn't mean it won't get worked out.

   • Embed this notice
     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br)'s status on Monday, 16-Jun-2025 18:36:38 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • Oook
     you haven't read doctorow's article I linked to you, have you?
     
   • Embed this notice
     Oook (oook@im-in.space)'s status on Monday, 16-Jun-2025 18:36:40 JST Oook

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo If you want to fight against that, it is in the laws. People will be naturally drawn to use tools that they feel is helping them achieve things.

     Humanity has done that since the dawn of time. From inventing the wheel, building tools, using animals to pull a plough in a field, making machines, vehicles, then the very computer you are using here to troll on the fediverse. At every step it had effect on improving efficiency and subsequently making people lose job.

     You can't just say CORPORATE BOOO, LLM BAAAAD and hope it will change anything.

   • Embed this notice
     Alexandre Oliva (lxo@snac.lx.oliva.nom.br)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Jun-2025 03:15:23 JST Alexandre Oliva

     in reply to

     • Oook
     my idea of a good time is not going about trying to find evidence for random statements that randos try to push into my mouth on the Internet
     
     there was plenty of debate. you're confused about how corporations exert their influence. maintaining the illusion of choice is often important for those who wish to claim allegiance to so-called "open" wishy-washy, even while threatening developers who don't go along with their plans with such mafia-like offers as "when we get to [future milestone], and we will, you won't have a choice anyway, so why not go along with it from now and save yourself the trouble" to, erhm, persuade dissenters
     
     that happened with systemd, it's happening again with wayland, it's all happened before, and will happen again, so say we all
     
     CC: @lfa@hostux.social
     
   • Embed this notice
     Oook (oook@im-in.space)'s status on Tuesday, 17-Jun-2025 03:15:24 JST Oook

     in reply to

     • Alexandre Oliva

     @lxo @lfa Let's be specific. Show me a documented exemple of a change being pushed forcefully in say, Debian, without a debate?