Dr. Quadragon ❌
Wow. They're calling the rise of AA, B and Indie games "deprofessionalization" now.
A lot of middle-men like large publishers and management are supposedly losing employees because small teams and just regular individuals have been learning to make good games, raising the bar and lowering the entry barrier.
To which I say: good fucking riddance. Cancerously oversized AAA publisher establishment needs to go the way of the TV in the wake of online video: slow, undignified extinction.
Jade
But from more recent titles, indie jrpgs, we have Omori, made in rpg maker too. We have Sea of Stars, released in 2023, which implemented QTEs in turn-based battles before Expedition 33. As for recent well-written stuff I can name Felvidek, Wildermyth is great with it's continuous legacy mechanics. I honestly believe that In Stars And Time would become new Undertale, if Tumblr was still alive.
djsumdog
Sea of Stars was like .. mid-tier (I did a review last year: https://battlepenguin.com/gaming/sea-of-stars/ .. did enjoy it, with caveats)
I can see AI helping with indie RPGs (game art is hard), but in my head, some of the best indie titles have been in the action genre: Hotline Miami I/II, Bastion ... or the gritty puzzle genre: Gris, Limbo/Inside, Planet of Luna, Far Lone Sail.
Narrative games and visual novels would benefit no-doubt, but you'd also get a lot of slop and a whole reviewer/curation industry. But action games still require a lot of fine detail work. Even with that, I still think most people would desire the "real" stuff, like Star Trek and not wanting replicated food.
I bet we'll see a scandal in the next 5 years where an indie title (like Coffin of Andy and Leyley sized fanbase) gets huge and then it's revealed all the art (maybe even the dialog) is LLM/ai-art based. That would be :gummypopcorn:
Jade
@ZySoua and did all of the games 10 years ago had creativity and unique ideas?
You mentioned turn-based indie RPGs previously, so let's talk about them. What was in this landscape in 2010s, being unique and memorable? Undertale, sure, the most unique one. One Shot. Stuff like Ib or Yume Nikki, with good horror and psychological beats, but not that innovative in mechanics. Brutal Lisa series. To the Moon, written brilliantly, but is it really unique mechanically? Don't think so.
Gnosyz 🖖:straightally:
@pastecat @drq Quantity side is not always the quality. There is more games released than 10 years ago by solo and indie teams? Yes. Do all of them have skill and/or creativity to actually create a game someone would pay 1-3$ for? Very few.
expired cake the human
@ZySoua@mastodon.ml dude it's like literally indie renaessance happening right now. Yeah there's a ton of shitty indie games released each year but we still getting good ones too. And i'd say much, MUCH more then 5-10 years ago. @drq@mastodon.ml
Gnosyz 🖖:straightally:
@drq While I don't agree with "depofessionalization" (stupid, shit termin, made up by big corpo-rats), I do find that due to using AI to create games and overall lack of experience/time/funding (choose one or choose all) many indie games lately are crap. If those people would work harder or work together even to create better indie or B, A, AA level games, it would be a great improvement. So sad that there are just a handful of star level indie and solo game developers.
PS: I also blame RPG Maker for dozens and dozens of indie RPGs that were made in last few years that look same, feel same and only saving grace of their may be the plot, but many of them are pretty much straightforwardly same - you are a hero/party of heroes, go save the kingdom.
And while you or any other may find my critique harsh or cold, I have been playing games for 30 years. Hundreds of games.
Gnosyz 🖖:straightally:
@lost_enchanter @pastecat @drq No, I don't want "a new Assassin Creed". Thank you for degrading me.
I would love a game with intelligence and long life...
Jade
@ZySoua
So, yes, we have more quantity. Is it bad? Should we gatekeep people from making games until they have mind-blowing idea? Idk, is Untitled Goose Game brilliant? A lot would argue.
Jade
@ZySoua
So, just adapt. Corporations will actively spam everywhere, trying to make you buy their stuff, because you are gamer, sure you would like new Assassin's Creed. You just have to actively look into indie scene yourself, because yes, it's a lot harder to break the ceiling. But it's not an indication that now indies are "worse", and I will die on this hill.
Jade
And for many cases, where rpg maker was used, now the developer uses their own engine. We got Citizen Sleeper, both of them. Roadwarden. Black book. I can name a lot more if needed.
Jade
Yes, I don't have 30 years of experience playing, but for the last 5 years each Steam Next Fest I waltz through 30 or so demos. And you know what? Some of current indies are BRILLIANT. One of the best puzzles I played last year, Guidebook of Babel, had about 10 reviews when I played. Other mind-breaking puzzle, which will forever be stuck with me, with 4 layers deep lore, Void Stranger, has all that retro graphics and I believe single person behind the whole game.
djsumdog
Gnosyz 🖖:straightally:
@djsumdog @drq @lost_enchanter @pastecat Bastion was meh IMHO. It was good at the beginning, but it fell apart towards end. Though it was a nice looking game indeed.
Narrative games imho should take some example from games like Disco Elysium or Baldurs Gate 3 which is not a narrative game per se, yet as it is a D&D game does the narration well.
djsumdog
Gnosyz 🖖:straightally:
@djsumdog @drq @lost_enchanter @pastecat
That’s the thing. Disco Elysium is a great narrative game. It has a lot of lore. A lot of details and depth in a deceptively small game map.
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