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Solar panels? Environmental policy?
It couldn't possibly be that both the liberals AND the conservatives are lying to you, like on every other issue, could it?
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@WandererUber Holy crap is that projection. I haven‘t done that to you at all. You’ve called me inconsistent when I’ve been anything but. I’ve been pretty patient with you actually. I knew going in this would be difficult though.
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@WandererUber Here‘s what I know as a fact
1. Nuclear is the lowest on the cost stack and highest on production time. They have very low downtime for maintenance.
2. Green energy costs more, but I don’t have the info in front of me to say how much more. They’re not the most expensive but not the least
3. Nuclear cannot service all energy needs, but it serves as the “base” of the energy stack being purchased every single day. When all the energy from nuclear has been allocated other plants sell their energy at higher cost. Like oil. Not everyone is saudi arabia.
4. When costs for green are sold, due to inconsistency, they sell their loads at a % discount of the current spot price. They are still among the last purchases made when meeting the estimated energy quota. If a distributor purchases electricity from a green source and it isn’t capable of delivering they will have to purchase from another plant at often much higher spot prices. This makes green energy more risky, thus the discount.
Is this inconsistent?
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@WandererUber It’s sold at a discount AND distributors STILL don’t want to buy it. Was this difficult to intuit? I’m sorry if it was.
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@John_Darksoul Every time you get into a discussion you immediately insinuate from the start that the other guy/position is stupid or irrational, but for some reason you never provide anything to back your position up. Don't know what it is with you but let's talk another day and about something else.
I've made a good faith effort to prove what I said :peepoShrug:
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@John_Darksoul >reads it
>says he will not read it
What did he mean by this?
>renewable energy is sold at a discount just to remain competitive. I imagine if it wasn’t subsidized it wouldn‘t even be attempted.
>My assumption is that the issues and costs associated with nuclear power are priced into the cost of the electricity it produces [implying it is cheaper anyway]
>I’ve been extremely consistent.
I think I've heard enough.
>You have a rosy view of solar that does not hold up to the reality of pricing. That is my point. You are wrong.
and yet you have given barely any argument to back this up, whereas I did, proving the opposite.
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@WandererUber Those two statements aren’t incongruous. I don’t know why you think they are. You are incorrect. When your assumption about solar being better meets reality you get absolutely blown the fuck out by nuclear. It’s not close.
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@John_Darksoul We've just completely moved on from all the other things yeah?
Alright. Then I guess I don't need to ask why you think
>My assumption is that the issues and costs associated with the plant are priced into the cost of the electricity it produces
but then assume renewables are just cheap because of subsidies?
Not very consistent.
Look at the graphs I posted and maybe you can find why the trend they imply is wrong. I couldn't but I would love to know.
People told me on here that renewables need more resources than fossil fuels and cited a fed study. Literally said "they love renewables, so it's probably even worse" so I looked it up and the figures they cited were EXCLUDING FUEL. I ran the numbers myself. Nuclear was the "best" iirc but closely followed by renewables .
What I'm trying to say is, if someone with actual know how in these fields can give me some real arguments, I'd love to hear them. So far, basically everything I've heard was either a lie, or old information. I think if we looked at the trade more globally, we'd see some different patterns, but I wouldn't know how to interpret the numbers myself without researching, since I'm not a trade guy.
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@WandererUber Sorry man, I’m not gonna read all that. The not very consistent comment is absurd. I’ve been extremely consistent. You have a rosy view of solar that does not hold up to the reality of pricing. That is my point. You are wrong.
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@WandererUber This isn’t con propaganda btw lol. I have some (minor) formal education in energy commodities trading at least for how my area works. It’s not universal, sure, but it is the reality on the ground where I live.
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@John_Darksoul Haven't you completely sidestepped my counterargument about subsidies?
I have experience in home solar (designed and installed it for myself and others) and literally every single thing people say about that is completely untrue. I can tell you that it definitely makes sense for the homeowner, especially in locations where no fossil extraction takes place (basically most of the West). Plenty of places have electricity prices that are less than 25% determined by the price of making the power, the rest is fees and taxes. That could be changed but it isn't.
And I would prefer nuclear too if I was just a trader. I don't have to deal with weather and demand spikes and the costs of extraction and waste management are on the taxpayer because of national security concerns.
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@WandererUber >I would prefer nuclear if I was a trader
That’s my experience with the topic. My assumption is that the issues and costs associated with the plant are priced into the cost of the electricity it produces. We know nuclear plants are high capex, but capex is very predictable and their opex is low which is why they can undercut other plants on costs. Green energy, at scale, needs better battery technology to be as cost effective.
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@John_Darksoul If you hate subsidies, I guess nuclear is out of the question for you then.
I would encourage you to actually do the math yourself. A lot of people go off things they see on conservative-adjacent social media and, as you saw with this one, these people constantly lie about everything. I doubt that's you.
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@WandererUber I don’t know what to tell you dude. It is an absolute fact that nuclear reduces the cost of electricity. Distributors prefer nuclear power and the cost is lower. No one likes buying green :02_shrug:
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@WandererUber Nah. I’ve seen the downstream energy economics. Solar still sucks. Nobody really wants to buy it. They sell their electricity at a discount just to remain competitive. I imagine if it wasn’t subsidized it wouldn‘t even be attempted.
Wanderer über dem Nebelmeer
John_Darksoul
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