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I was wondering what this was from. So it was EPA stupidity. So you are way harder on starters ( which now have to run up to 100 times a trip ) and it probably ends up causing more pollution due to waste from destroyed starters and also cars producing more pollution when the car starts back up.
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@sickburnbro Many false claims.
>So you are way harder on starters ( which now have to run up to 100 times a trip )
Modern electric motors can easily handle far more than the number of startups a vehicle would go through if of acceptable quality.
>ends up causing more pollution due to waste from destroyed starters
A decent-quality electric motor will outlast the rest of the vehicle, although if the manufacturer put a garbage-quality one in, sure it will die after a few years - but starters can be mostly metal, which actually can be recycled and need not be wasted.
>cars producing more pollution when the car starts back up.
If an engine is warm, it will not produce much extra pollution starting up.
A engine idling in a terrible power band for less than 20 seconds is going to release much more pollution than the 0.5s burst of increased pollution of starting a warm engine.
Car engines do not like being idled and the calculation works out that even with cars that do not have start-stop and have a starter with a severely limited service life, it saves fuel and maintenance to stop the engine if you're going to be stopped for more than 20 seconds.
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@Suiseiseki A simple question: have you replaced a starter on a modern vehicle?
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@sickburnbro I don't have a modern vehicle, as I don't subject myself to proprietary malware on wheels.
Engine mounts should have been standardized and replacing a starter should be a 5 minute job, but of course not.
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@Suiseiseki @sickburnbro > A decent-quality electric motor will outlast the rest of the vehicle
I can believe this for a normal car, but think this won't change with auto restart is like relaxing manufacturing standards because most plane crashes are caused by human error
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@Victor_Emmanuel @Suiseiseki I mean, I've replaced several starter motors on cars that are 1995 or newer, so I just don't believe this.
Additionally, running starters in hot engines is bad because heat is a big enemy of electric motors.
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@Suiseiseki you can't expect a starter to be a 5 minute job in a semi-modern engine bay because all of them have been squeezed for space, so you always have to remove 20 items to have room to get a starter out.
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@sickburnbro @Victor_Emmanuel Yes, manufacturers were putting mediocre components in cars even back in 1995 (as those would still last 20 years), so it doesn't surprise me that such eventually failed.
Yes, the heat requirement requires appropriate material selection and design, but at least the motor doesn't run for very long with engines designed to start quickly.
In engines with enough cylinders, or with control/detection of the position the engine stops in, you can design an engine that can get started warm with with a cylinder stroke without using the starter.
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@sickburnbro Yes, the reality gets in the way of the should.
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@Suiseiseki I don't even mind so much components in cars being very specialized, the thing I keep in mind is that you can't make everything easy to change, and so you have to make choices.
If the technology they used was more static it might allow for more time to optimize layout, but stuff keeps changing every year.
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@BadOptniks @Victor_Emmanuel @Suiseiseki yeah, there are a lot of places you can put a starter that is easy to do when you're assembling it and might save you some space in the engine, but means 8 hours of labor to replace it, which is just insane.
I've replaced it in engines where you had to take off the intake manifold.
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@sickburnbro @Victor_Emmanuel @Suiseiseki Cadillac's northstar engine did everyone dirty with requiring the engine to be torn down to replace starter and it failed often
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@TeaTootler @BadOptniks @Victor_Emmanuel @Suiseiseki those things are so tiny you can probably just lift the engine out with 1 hand
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@sickburnbro @BadOptniks @Victor_Emmanuel @Suiseiseki A smart car is a fucking nightmare not a shock since it’s German engineered
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@Victor_Emmanuel @sickburnbro You can't change the oil?
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@sickburnbro @Suiseiseki Not a car guy, most I can do is change a flat. So I'll take your word on it.
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@Victor_Emmanuel @Suiseiseki whats funny with "car guy" is there is always a guy that is more of a car guy than you.
"well, I've added street rod headers to my car, but I've never bored the cylinders out"
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@Suiseiseki @sickburnbro I can add oil, but I've never changed it myself.
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@Victor_Emmanuel @sickburnbro If you change it yourself, you know it was properly done and also save some money.
Of course it's needlessly difficult for many vehicles, with you needing to jack the car up (or a trench) and needing a tool to get off the filter casing (and you get to find out that some idiot mechanic ignored the listed N value that is a bit more than hand tight and decided to tighten it at least 10 times that with a long ratchet - amazingly the plastic didn't break and the O-ring didn't leak).
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@homesteader_surfer @BadOptniks @Victor_Emmanuel @Suiseiseki yeah, and taking off the intake isn't too bad nowadays since isn't cast iron anymore. I hate plastic except when I'm trying to take a large plenum out of an awkward space, then I appreciate it.
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@sickburnbro @BadOptniks @Victor_Emmanuel @Suiseiseki the toyota 4.7l 2uz-fe v8 that is in the 100 seriesland cruisers/ tundras/ and some 4runners (also in their lexus counterparts) has the starter under the intake manifold also.
although toyota seems to do a good job engineering their starters for this scenario as it is a replacement job that seems to only come once every 7-10 years.
I had 1999 land cruiser for 8 years and never had to replace the starter and also had the 2000 lexus equivalent LX 470 that has 437K miles on it and only replace the starter once since i owned it for 7 years (looks like it was 10 years old as previous owner replace it 3 years before I bought it)
Bread up, Bro
翠星石
Victor_Emmanuel
But it should have
you should buy a fumo
homesteader_surfer
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